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finishthemoff |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Vee took a huge risk of playing race card and insist not to boot Sean and aim after Rob instead. It paid off.
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King Lord |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Good discussion, guys. Keep it up.
Quote: Ethan didn't do anything wrong because he didn't do ANYTHING, period. And again,the three other F4 contestants were vying to take him to the finals because they were strategic morons; it had nothing to do with his efforts, or lack therof. I honestly don't see how anyone can defend Ethan's game. I liked him as a person, but as a player, not so much. Quote: I'll give Ethan credit for the Silas boot and the Brandon boot. Other than those two, what decisions did he lead? He was mostly a follower; Lex was the leader. And a stupid leader at that, bringing his alliance down in numbers from 6-4 to 4-4. Why would anyone choose to follow a guy that dumb strategically? If Brandon had voted for Lex at F9, OR if Kim P. had voted with the other Samburus against Tom at F8, Ethan would have been doomed, barring an immunity run. Ethan won primarily because of other people's mistakes, not because of anything brilliant on his part. Quote: Good point. I guess I have to figure out another most overrated winner. Right now, it would be a toss-up between Yul and Tom. |
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fanofcoils |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Vecepia was a huge threat. She was targeted twice. People feared her more than Colby.
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cuauhtemocace2 |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Overrated - Yeuhl
Underrated - Jenna |
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fanofcoils |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Ethan won because he was a little bit more popular than Kim J.
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CSCin3D |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Overrated: Ful, Arass
Sorry people, but the fact is, Aras didn't do shit to win. He demonstrated about as great a knowledge of the game of Survivor as Sean Kenniff. He lucked out incredibly by not doing anything. Underrated: Vee, Danni |
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fanofcoils |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Who was better at strategy, Aras or Chris?
Vote |
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WylDawg |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
Quote:Exactly. Just like Amber they latched on to someone abrasive, let them make all the decision and watched them shoot themselves in the foot, in the process. I guess you can give them credit for that, but beyond that... Besides, how was Ethan sure that Lex's alliance would go all the way? How did Amber knew that Rob's alliance would go all the way? They were lucky on that perspective too. Quote:I know you're trying to mock him, but I don't really get it. What does "Ful" mean? |
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fanofcoils |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
Quote: It was obvious that Romber would go all the way that season. You could tell from the beginning. |
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theone97301 |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Overrated-
Vecepia because it seemed like she won by accindent. Sandra see above Aras See above Underrated Chris because he was 1 on five and still managed to win. He isn't considered the best because of the veak cast. Jenna because she won against a strong group of stategest. She also won when she had too. |
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RazorrzzEdge |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Overrated: Arass
Underrated: Vee |
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WylDawg |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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I understand people who say Vecepia was underrated, because the average fan only focuses on how she was invisible a complete religious zealot. That being said, I still think her win was pretty bad. Anyone who lands in the final 4 with no allies had to do something wrong along the way.
Though the term "bad winner" is pretty much contradictory. Like TMG will most likely point out when he posts here (angrily) You won, you won, end of story. No point analyzing it, comparing it, etc. |
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Quiddity |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Underrated
Danni - Gets ton of hate around here, in fact have already seen some in this thread. And its solely because of her bad edit (or perhaps there's a bunch of closet StepheME fans who still can't take the fact that their girl lost). I've said it many times and I'll say it again. Arguably the most impressive win out of anyone who has won the game. She's the only person in the history of the game who successfully turned the tables by not tagging up with the low people on the totem pole, but rather the leaders. Rafe played a near perfect game, turning Stephenie from angel girl who could do no wrong to one of the most hated and despised goats in the history of the game. Yet Danni played an even better game as she completely duped him into destroying his game just like he had destroyed Steph's. And another think I just can't stop saying, she got royally screwed by a twist, moreso than any winner in the game's history (Amber would be number one if not for the fact that Lex did the arguably the stupidest thing in the game's history by voting out Jerri instead, but then she wouldn't have been the winner :P). Won just as many immunities as Steph & co, yet was down by two at the merge. Even with the producers trying to fix the game in Steph's favor, she still won. Vecepia - Another one who gets really bashed not for her gameplay, but for her edit. Vecepia was Rob C two seasons before Rob C showed up. Successfully flipped to who was in power at every single chance she got. Paid as much attention to those around her as anyone which enabled her to win a crucial immunity at F4. Smartly stabbed Kathy in the back in the final challenge knowing she'd never be able to beat her. Overrated Jenna - Won the game simply because she won F4 immunity. Where Rafe did all this careful work to make Steph ultra goat and got completely duped by Danni, Rob C did all this careful work to make Matt ultra goat, then lost the game simply because he lost F4 immunity against a girl who wanted to quit the day before. This is a girl who had no strategy whatsoever, was very rude and cruel to others, wanted to quit the game, and she wins because she pulled out a single crucial challenge victory. Yul - Never had to really play the game because he lucked out into being put on Exile Island in the second episode. Coasted the entire way with the immunity idol. Its easy to play the game like him when you have automatic immunity at every single tribal council. Quote: Bullshit. Yes, voting off Blake was dumb, but the fact is it did her no harm whatsoever. And she didn't luck into Rafe making bad moves. Rafe was a tremendous player at the game. Danni just happened to be better than him. Quote: Um, no. What was the big turning point in the game? Twila and Scout seperating from Ami and Leann to join Chris. Why did that happen? Because Chris tells Leann that Scout wanted to join with the guys, that gets Leann to stupidly tell Scout she's out of the F4, and that results in the power shift. Acting like Chris had nothing to do with that is absolute bullshit. Chris doesn't say that stuff, then Scout happily votes out Eliza at F7, whom she wanted really bad to get rid of, then the power shift can't happen with Eliza gone. |
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beatles20147 |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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As soon as I saw the topic title, I knew my answers, and I'm glad to see that one of my favorite posters pretty much described them both perfectly. But I can't not overanalyze stuff so...
Overrated: Yul. I like the guy, honest. And yes, he was a smart strategist and seemed pretty popular among his competitors. But I just can't help but think that there needs to be an asterisk next to his name in winner rankings because without that damn idol, he's 9th place, with Jonathan not having any incentive to flip back. Almost every winner has a defining move or two that set up their win but Yul's the only one who had such a major advantage for 32 days of the game. I also have to take into account the fact that even with the hidden idol, had there not been a twist at the end, he would've been doomed to third place, with Ozzy likely winning the last challenge and facing off against Becky in the end. Underrated: One thing that I've never understood with winner rankings is people inevitably rank Sandra in the top half because "she had the 'anyone but me' strategy," but Ethan always occupies one of the bottom three slots. Don't get me wrong, Sandra's my second favorite winner after Tom but I don't really get what she did that Ethan didn't, and he did it in a much more successful fashion, with, as SSS pointed out, a guaranteed win once it was down to the final four. Ethan perfected the "Don't let any juror go out hating you" strategy. While the other players were busy making enemies and shipping them off to the jury, Ethan sat on the sidelines, moving one step closer to the final two with each passing argument and wrecked alliance. I'm not saying he's a great winner or anything, but doing nothing (which is an exaggeration) is pretty smart when almost everybody else is doing things that tarnish what the soon-to-be jurors think of them. |
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fanofcoils |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Chris did a good job lying from the F5 onwards
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SwineForkbeard |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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Underrated: probably Danni and Vecepia, just because the editors forgot about them and excised any footage of them playing the game.
Overrated: Aras - The only things he did that showed the remotest evidence of intelligence were riding Cirie's coattails and convincing Danielle to take him, though that couldn't have been too hard when her only alternative was to take Terry. A brief outline of Aras's suckitude: a. All these people making vague arguments about how he "kept Casaya together" don't make any sense. Danielle was the one who kept Casaya together, by booting Bobdawg against Aras's wishes. Bobdawg told Bruce in the outhouse that he would switch sides once he got to the merge. He was the one who wanted to break Casaya up, but Aras wanted to keep him around. Casaya had the numbers because Danielle/Courtney/Cirie booted him, not because of anything Aras did. Aras wanted to vote out Bruce, which probably would have destroyed his game later on. Without Bruce, they might not have even won the ep. 6 IC, but even if they had, then Bobdawg gets to the merge and flips. Also, had Bruce not made the merge, the immunity challenge in episode 10 wouldn't have been canceled, and had anyone other than Terry or Aras won it, Aras was gone. b. He made the final 4 due to the ineptitude of the former Casayas in the challenges. Had Terry not won them all, he would have been been knocked out by the HII. According to Sally, he didn't even care. c. His plan was to lose to Cirie. Whether you think he could have beaten her or not, he didn't think he could, but planned to face her in the final 2 anyway. Which makes him even dumber than Colby, who at least believed he had a good shot of beating Tina. Aras was clueless about the game, and the dumbest winner after Amber. Amber was the worst winner, but I wouldn't call her overrated, since most people seem to agree. |
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cg41386 |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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^^
Overrated: Brian, Richard Underrated: Aras, Danni |
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seltzer3 |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
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I think one of the problems is that the general public tends to assume
person with more airtime means better player. person with less airtime means worse player. Which is why Danni & Vee do not really get a lot of credit in general. I also feel that Becky and Jenn from Palau got screwed as well. Becky was the one who initiated the foursome alliance of (Yul/Becky/Jonathan/Candice). The funny thing is how people who I talked to, would always give Yul the credit for that and not Becky. Jenn was a pretty shrewd player as well. |
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King Lord |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
Quote: First of all, Sanda had to take the 'anyone but me' stance from F5 onward because at that point, both her original allies were gone. Ethan never had to take that stance because he was always in the majority, and he didn't get there by skill, but by sheer luck. The switch, Brandon's F9 decision, Kim P.'s F8 decision, Kim J.'s F6 non-decision -- if any of these things had gone differently, Ethan would've been toast. Second, Ethan's win at F4 shouldn't have been guaranteed, if the other three weren't strategic nimrods. In fact, once Kim J. won immunity, if the she, Tom, and Lex were thinking smart, Ethan should have gone. Instead, of their own volition (and not of Ethan's doing), the three turned on each other. If Ethan had been playing all three of them a la Brian H., that would be different, but he wasn't playing them. He just lucked into that position. Quote: Okay, I won't say Ethan did absolutely nothing. Again, I give Ethan credit for the Silas boot and the Brandon boot. But he didn't really make any other strategic moves besides those two. You can argue that he didn't need to do anything more, but again, the key factor here is that Ethan got into that situation mostly by luck, not by skill. Upon further consideration, however, I won't say Ethan was the most overrated winner. I changed my mind when I saw this comment from beatles: Quote: I couldn't have said it any better myself. Survivor is like poker, in that you have to make the best play with the cards you're dealt. Most of the time, Yul made the best plays; I'll give him credit for that. But it's hard to lose with four aces, and the idol ended up being four aces for Yul. It's hard to say he earned the win when he was immune at every tribal council he attended. Yul is the most overrated winner. |
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beatles20147 |
Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Winner | ||
Quote: Right, and that strategy worked perfectly in a chaotic post-merge like Pearl Islands had. I've just always wondered why she was given so much credit for that strategy when it just seems...obvious to me. As long as it's "anyone but me" leaving at each TC, you're in good shape. She just was more open about that outlook on the game than the other winners. Quote: I'm absolutely with you on that one, why they were all competing to lose to Ethan in the final two is beyond me. But my thinking is that you can't be in that position at the final four, with only two days left, based solely on your three opponents disliking each other. Kind of like had Ogakor finished off the Pagonging of Kucha and Jerri was in the final five, nobody in their right mind (read: everyone besides Colby) would've targetted her, they'd be looking at her as their final two goat and ticket to the win. Unless you're Colby, money talks too loudly, especially that late in the game, for anyone to throw away the win just to make sure someone else doesn't win. Even Tara from TAR2, who said to her partner just a day before the finish that she'd rather lose the money so that he couldn't get any, was running her ass off at the finish line. So luck definitely played a part in Ethan getting in that position, but I honestly think there was more to it. (FWIW, I still think--and it might have been brought up in an interview at some point, I'm not sure--that Ethan had a secret alliance with Kim that was hidden from the audience since they were the final two. After all, unlike Ethan and Tom or Lex, he and Kim were together throughout the entire game.) Quote: Excellent. </Mr. Burns> ;) |
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