399...holy hell. A few qual points and you would've broken 400.
JrRules has had a serious fall...starting JJ Yeley twice has killed him.
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smartguy24 |
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Way to go Lobsters!
399...holy hell. A few qual points and you would've broken 400. JrRules has had a serious fall...starting JJ Yeley twice has killed him. |
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ginaf20697 |
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w00t!!! All the way up to 13th!!!
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Undertakeress |
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I was 4,6,11 and 35..guess I should've started Cousin Carl..oops.
Congrats Lobsters on moving up to 2nd place! WHooo hooo! And I watched that race in 30 minutes...fast forward is a beautiful thing. But Tony taking out GayJay and Jiffypoop was great. |
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Lobsters |
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WHOOPS! Those magnets just FELL under there.
NASCAR uncovers cheating by Joe Gibbs Racing after Nationwide race Story Highlights * NASCAR inspectors found magnets under the gas pedals on the two Gibbs Toyotas * Toyota has won 15 of 25 Nationwide races this season; JGR has won all but one * Joe Gibbs Racing said it takes full responsibility for the actions of its employees Decrease font Decrease font Enlarge font Enlarge font ADVERTISEMENT BROOKLYN, Mich. (AP) -- The No. 18 and No. 20 Joe Gibbs Racing teams in the Nationwide Series will likely face big penalties after efforts to alter the results of a chassis dyno test. NASCAR inspectors, preparing to do tests on horsepower numbers following Saturday's Nationwide race at Michigan International Speedway, found magnets under the gas pedals on the two Gibbs Toyotas. Tony Stewart, making his last Nationwide start for the Gibbs team, finished third in the No. 20, and 18-year-old rookie Joey Logano was seventh in the No. 18. The race was won by Carl Edwards in a Ford. Toyota has won 15 of 25 races this season in Nationwide, and all but one came in a Camry fielded by Gibbs. The exception was JGR driver Kyle Busch's victory at Charlotte in May in a car fielded by Braun Racing. In the face of such domination, last month NASCAR ordered the Toyota Nationwide teams to use a smaller spacer to cut about 15 horsepower in their motors. The incident Saturday was apparently an effort to keep the current numbers from looking too strong in the latest test. "In our post-race inspection -- yesterday was the day we were going to chassis dyno cars -- our inspectors discovered some shims that were placed on the gas pedal stop," Robin Pemberton, vice president of competition for NASCAR, said Sunday. "It was magnets that were about a quarter-inch thick that prevented the accelerator from going 100 percent wide open. "The intention was to manipulate the numbers that we get when we get our information and data off the dyno." Pemberton said NASCAR officials will meet Monday and Tuesday to determine what penalties will be handed out. "I anticipate that we haven't seen the end of it yet," Pemberton said when asked if the penalties were likely to be severe. "We historically don't make our decisions within a 24-hour period. It takes time to get everybody in a group and talk about it." J.D. Gibbs, son of owner Joe Gibbs and president of the team, said JGR takes full responsibility for the actions of its employees. "Let me just say that, first and foremost, that that was a really poor, foolish decision on the part of our key guys there at JGR," Gibbs said. "I want to apologize to NASCAR, to our partners, to Toyota guys. A couple guys chose to make a decision there that really impacts all of us." Gibbs said he was thankful that it was an off-track incident that did not involve racing and added that the big -- and most frustrating -- question is why was it done? "I know they were probably frustrated from the standpoint that wanting to show that, 'Hey, we have less horsepower than ever before' and they wanted to make it look like we're handicapped even more than we actually were," Gibbs said. "I understand that, but that's not an excuse. "For us, we kind of feel like, in the engine shop that's kind of a badge of honor. You win that engine dyno, good for you. That's kind of how we felt in the past few years and (chief engine builder) Mark Cronquist and those guys really feel like they want to win that thing. "The way I look at it, to come back after you've been chopped, to come back and win it again, that's awesome," Gibbs noted. "That's a great story. That wasn't able to be told." He said no matter what action NASCAR takes, the team will address the situation in-house. "(We'll) figure out exactly what happened and those that were responsible," Gibbs said. "There's going to be punishment for that. That's just part of life. You can't do that." In a statement released by the elder Gibbs, he echoed his son. "If this alleged incident proves true, it goes against everything we stand for as an organization," the former Washington Redskins coach said. "We will take full responsibility and accept any penalties NASCAR levies against us." Lee White, president of Toyota Racing Development, said the company is grateful that the team stepped up and took responsibility and made it clear Toyota was not involved. "I found out about it halfway through the day session last night, when I went over there to see what was going on," White said. "I was surprised to see what was happening, and astonished and frankly incredulous. I couldn't believe it was happening because it's clearly defined in the entry forms that you don't do this sort of thing. "But I'm sure Joe and J.D. will take care of that internally and, whatever fans think, they're going to think. We're just going to keep working on our stuff." Pat Suhy, GM Racing group manager for NASCAR, said the actions by the Gibbs team raise more questions. "It's not something that you like to hear about and you have to just question every chassis dyno that's ever been run on every Toyota," Suhy said. "You look at the (No.) 32 car (of Brian Vickers and Red Bull Racing), the 32 and the 18 and the 20 made about the same power the first run (on the dyno). When they took the magnet, or whatever this device was, out of the 18 and the 20, they both came up. "What I don't know is if it's a Toyota problem, if it's a Joe Gibbs thing, how widespread is it and how long has it been going on, because a lot of what's been done (by NASCAR) has been based on the chassis dyno results. And, if they were always showing worse on the chassis dyno than actual, maybe (NASCAR) didn't go far enough. "It's disappointing to hear that anybody, whether it's a manufacturer or a team or an individual on a team would go to any length to do that," Suhy added. "It's bad for the entire garage, I think." Jack Roush, co-owner of Roush-Fenway Racing, which fields Fords in the Nationwide Series, called the Gibbs team's actions "extremely detrimental to stock car racing. "NASCAR will figure out what they should," Roush said. "If they're going to make decisions based on parity, after they've given (Toyota) what they've given them with regard to parameters on their engine, based on flawed data that a team or the manufacturer, one of the other, had kited or shaved, that certainly is detrimental to my interests." Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |
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pfritobandito |
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WOW... a team actually accepts responsibility??? That's impressive right there.
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Undertakeress |
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You gotta wonder how much they're trying to get Toyota for having too much horsepower if Gibbs has to resort to this!!
Reminds me of the whole Ford/Chevy debacle in the early 90's where the Chevy's were complaining Ford had too much power, and NASCAR did everything but make them run a cylinder less to slow Ford down. |
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Lobsters |
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Bet they think twice about doing THAT again!
NASCAR levies severe penalties against GibbsJGR suspends crew members for remainder of season
By NASCAR.COM
August 20, 2008 01:35 PM EDT
type size: + -
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Joe Gibbs Racing has suspended two Nationwide Series crew chiefs for the remainder of the season in the wake of penalties handed down by NASCAR after rule violations were discovered by inspectors prior to post-race testing on the chassis dynamometer Aug. 16 at Michigan. NASCAR announced that seven crew members -- including No. 18 crew chief Jason Ratcliff and No. 20 crew chief Dave Rogers -- have been placed on indefinite suspension.
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Although in no way was anything done that might have altered the race outcome, these JGR employees attempted to circumvent the NASCAR rule book and that is unacceptable.
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-- JOE GIBBS
In response, team owner Joe Gibbs said in a statement: "A poor decision was made by some key members of our organization, and 100 percent of the blame rests with us." Gibbs also noted that JGR would adding its own penalties to the team members on top of NASCAR's sanctions. "We had come to the conclusion that we would add to any NASCAR imposed penalties with the minimum being suspension for the remainder of the season for those involved, including our two Nationwide Series crew chiefs. There will also be an additional monetary fine beyond the amount announced by NASCAR earlier today, which will be the responsibility of those involved." A JGR spokesman confirmed to NASCAR.COM that team has suspended the seven crew members for the remainder of the season. Both the Nos. 18 and 20 cars were found to be in violation of: • Section 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 8-9 (competitive analysis -- from time to time, NASCAR may determine, in the interest of competition, that it is necessary or appropriate to undertake an analysis of the performance capabilities of a car, car part, component or equipment. The Competitor shall take whatever steps are requested by NASCAR Officials for this purpose. NASCAR also has the right to seal or impound cars, car parts, components and/or equipment for this purpose); • Section 12-4-Q (1): (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used that do not conform to NASCAR rules, detailed in Section 20A of the 2008 NASCAR Rule Book, or has not been approved by NASCAR prior to the event, or is not required for the normal functional operation of the race car, or has been altered to detract from or compromise its integrity or effectiveness, whether operational or not); • Section 12-4-K: (when NASCAR Officials mandate inspection during the Event, if any car, car parts, components, and/or equipment which have been used in the Event are taken from the racing premises without permission of a NASCAR Official, or are tampered with by any member of the team or anyone associated with the team: Magnetic spacer attached under the gas pedal with the intent of compromising the chassis dynamometer test). As a result, NASCAR issued the following penalties: (Continued) • Both of the drivers -- Joey Logano of the No. 18 and Tony Stewart of the No. 20 -- have been penalized with the loss of 150 championship driver points and placed on probation until Dec. 31. Joe Gibbs, owner of both of the cars, has likewise been penalized 150 championship owner points for each of those entries. • Both crew chiefs -- Ratcliff and Rogers -- have been fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended. ![]() Sound OffBoth JGR crew chiefs and five other team members were indefinitely suspended by NASCAR following an attempt to manipulate dyno results after the Nationwide Series race at Michigan. Did the penalties fit the crime? • From the No. 18 team, car chief Dorian Thorsen, engine tuner Michael Johnson, and crew member Toby Bigelow have been placed on indefinite suspension. • From the No. 20 team, car chief Richard Bray and engine tuner Dan Bajek have been indefinitely suspended. • In addition, the entire Nos. 18 and 20 Nationwide Series teams have been placed on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31. "In our post-race inspection, our inspectors discovered some shims that were placed on the gas-pedal stop. They were magnets that were about a quarter-inch thick that prevented the accelerator from going 100 percent wide open," said Robin Pemberton, vice president of competition for NASCAR. It is not unusual for NASCAR to test cars on the chassis dynamometer, which measures rear-wheel horsepower. Officials have administered this test several times during the season, and the Nos. 18 and 20 cars were only two of several that were tested following the race. "In 17 years we have never had any representative of Joe Gibbs Racing knowingly act outside of NASCAR's rules, and that is something we consider essential to how we operate on a daily basis," Gibbs said. "What we have determined is that these individuals involved used extremely poor judgment in attempting to alter the results of NASCAR's dyno test following Saturday's Nationwide Series race in Michigan. "Although in no way was anything done that might have altered the race outcome, these JGR employees attempted to circumvent the NASCAR rule book and that is unacceptable." The JGR teams in question have dominated the series for much of the season, combining to win 14 of 25 races. The infractions come shortly after NASCAR announced rule changes for the Toyota engines used in the Nationwide Series last month. The guidelines were intended to cut 15 horsepower and level a playing field that fellow competitors had insisted was lopsided for much of the season because they believed the Toyota engines were producing more horsepower than other manufacturers. "We take full responsibility and accept the penalties NASCAR has levied against us today," Gibbs said. "We are, however, disappointed that NASCAR chose to place our drivers on probation, as they had no knowledge or involvement of this incident." Penalties
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ginaf20697 |
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The whole thing sucks. You just know they probably thought that if NASCAR had seen that they managed to get the HP back they would cut them off even more.
Stupid thing to do though because Honest Joe ain't gonna put up with that shit.
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Undertakeress |
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Well, maybe there's some job openings? And wasn't Michigan Tony's last Nationwide race anyways?
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raidersfantom |
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HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Fucking cheaters finally get caught! All this bullshit and slander about HMS is finally coming back to get you hausfraus! I bet they take a good hard close look at the Sprint Cup boys even more so now. No wonder Kyle has done so well this year... But seriously if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'...right? JGR worse cheats evah! |
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Undertakeress |
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At least they were cheating for a good reason..cause their cars are TOO fast.
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ginaf20697 |
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Jeez people just don't get that what they did has absolutely no effect on what the cars do on the race track. They didn't find anything on the engines.
It was about keeping NASCAR from getting a correct HP reading on the cars, probably because they've already found a way to compensate for the new rules and
didn't want NASCAR to find out and put more restrictions on the cars. It was STUPID but in no way did it effect the cars' on track performance.
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Undertakeress |
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What Gina said...and David Ragan went boom in qualifying
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ginaf20697 |
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Well of course he did. I picked him this week
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pfritobandito |
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I picked Ragan too... but I don't think I'll be using him now!
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Undertakeress |
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I picked Happy, he's 4th...mebbers there's 1 point.
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raidersfantom |
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ginaf20697 wrote: So what you are saying is that they wanted NASCAR to see a lesser HP reading because if a vehicle has more HP it won't go faster right? |
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ginaf20697 |
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Now you're just being fucking obtuse. Their engines were within specifications. NASCAR did not limit the HP the Toyotas could have. NASCAR put restrictions
on the carburetor size which they thought would cut the HP back on the cars but if it did Toyota was able to find a way to get the HP back where it should be
even with the smaller carburetor. If you still can't grasp it you're hopeless.
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raidersfantom |
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You are making my point
They put the magnets on to restrict the horsepower reading because they had found a way to "get" the 15 or so horsepower back. A double cheat Altered carburetor and magnets on the accelerator. Potato - Potahto |
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ginaf20697 |
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I didn't say it wasn't cheating. I was disputing your insinuation that it was why they were winning.
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