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Hippochinfat |
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How is Russel not a father? He acts like it outside of confessionals which is all that matters.
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Olmec Donald |
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Because no father burns his kids socks and throws out their water just to weaken them.
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Lady V |
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Hippochinfat, welcome. We have had lots of discussion about Russell earlier in the thread. And, IMO, I am beyond tired of him this week! Now he's idoless,
they look like they're getting ready to vote him out next week, which can mean only one thing--he wins immunity! Bleh.
Lots of family stuff this ep.: the name of the new tribe, Aiga, meaning extended family (one of those moments when I imagined all us FF4ers smiling); Erik being the one laughing at the name and getting voted out; Laura being called "mother hen" by Natalie, who says Laura has taken her "under her wing"; Natalie saying it's "like a family"; the discord between Shambo and "cheerleader" Laura (with Laura looking a bit like an adolescent fighting with her mom: "I don't need to work it out!"); Shambo saying there is a power struggle between she and Laura. So one of the too-many sons is gone; they'll likely be voting out a couple more, as well as a daughter, before too long... and there is one too many Ms, too. Edited to add a PS: Olmec Donald, you will laugh at this, but I only JUST got your name!!! I thought maybe Olmec was your last name, and Donald your first. Hahahahahaha I'm a little slow sometimes!!! (and now I have the song stuck in my head!)
Last Edited By: Lady V
11/05/09 11:19 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Olmec Donald |
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Well Lady V, you predicted correctly! A Son has been eliminated and the two mothers are at war.
Donald is my first name by the way ;) |
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MissScamper |
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Of late, FF4 has been much more successful at determining the winner than Edgic has been. I think this season is no exception. According to Edgic guidelines,
everyone is pretty much eliminated as the winner! I think SEG has been doing this deliberately, as they really don't like it when Edgic people can spot the
winner in Episode 1. So while they have been screwing around with their editing techniques, they can't get away from the Family aspect. So, what do we have
so far?
As Lady V pointed out, Laura and Shambo are fighting it out for the M position. And I do believe Shambo will win, as Laura is on the outs with Russell, and as we all know, if Russell wants you to go, you'll go. Bye, Laura, don't let the torch hit you on the butt on your way out. (No, I really don't like Laura.) However, is Shambo really an M? Apparently the only one who thinks she's an M is Shambo herself. To the viewer, she appears to be more of an E, as her entire tribe thinks she's psycho. Do we have a F this time? Or just Eldest Son? In any case, we have too many Sons and too many Daughters, so they will comprise the next bunch of boots. If I had to pick F4 today, I would pick Russell, Natalie, Mick and Shambo.
Last Edited By: MissScamper
11/06/09 11:41 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Olmec Donald |
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If that's the case, Mick probably wins. No E or borderline E has ever won, and children who win tend to display some sort of parental streak, which we
haven't seen from Natalie.
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birdlady |
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There's a somewhat disturbing web-only scene of Shambo kissing Eric, which might have some relevance to family dynamics...
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MissScamper |
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Didn't see that photo, Birdlady. Did it remind you of Lil kissing what's-his-name (cute guy with wavy hair) way back in Rupert's first season? I
found that pretty disturbing.
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birdlady |
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Not a photo, a whole scene.
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Lady V |
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Thanks for that, birdlady! I read somewhere recently that Shambo is a lesbian. That might be partly why we have had the E/M discussion about her, not that all
lesbians are masculine--but she is a masculine woman. Anyway, if Shambo had had him at age 17, she could be Eric's mother (she is 45)--certainly not his
grandmother or an "old lady!" I got a kick over him proclaiming his "warrior" nature. We have seen this so many times before--eldest sons
striving so hard to be men.
Olmec Donald, yeah, if Mick (F) makes it to F4--and he should, given FF4 history--he should win. Parents win more frequently than do kids. MissScamper, I don't like Laura either (sigh). She reminds me of a woman arrested developmentally as an adolescent (or younger). I, too, think Shambo will win the mother post. Mick, Shambo, Russell and some kid seem reasonable to me as FF4. And, yeah, next boots before F6 should be one of the Ms, and the "excess" kids. |
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BlakeB717 |
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It always feels good to have a thread that supports what you believe when Edgic gets crazy!
Nice to see that FF4 supports a Mick win if he's in the F4. |
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Lady V |
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BlakeB717 wrote: Yep. Fs have won Survivor 7 times--even weak ones (Ms have won 3 times). They have never come in second. And since F8, only one F has lost who has made it into the F4. This is impressive, considering how many more Ss and Ds there are in the cast each season. The historical FF4 finishes are in post 1152. :) |
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MissScamper |
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I'm still having trouble classifying Russell. Is he an E? Is he an F? As Donald pointed out, no Father burns his kids socks and throws out their water in
order to weaken the kids. However, an Eccentric does not direct his tribe to infiltrate the other tribe, as Russell did in the merge episode. A Father does
that. And I have to say that Russell is leading Foa Foa, not Mick.
Anyway, my point is that Russell, to me, is not clearly defined. He appears to be an E to some people, and he appears to be an F to others. Our FF4 experience tells us that anyone we have trouble classifying is not long for the game simply because he/she does not have a clearly defined role in the family. However, I think Russell just might make it to F4. If he makes it to the Final Tribal Council, I think it will be the very first time for a Hard-to-Classify survivor. If this happens, then I will say that while we are having trouble classifying Russell, his tribemates are seeing something we are not ( or maybe it's more correct to say that WE are seeing things in confessionals that the other tribemates do not), because they obviously are able to classify Russell. It should be interesting to see this all play out.
Last Edited By: MissScamper
11/09/09 4:25 PM.
Edited 2 times.
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birdlady |
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no Father burns his kids socks and throws out their water in order to weaken the kids.Well, a really bad Father does... I'd be inclined to weight less heavily anyone's behaviour early in the game. You're all fresh, well-fed, alert - you may well still have the ability to act like a role you're not. Once they've sat in the rain for three days and eaten a few rats, I think anyone's true nature is pretty well out there. So if something that happened the first night is the only reason not to call Russell an F, I'd say he's an F. |
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tmtomhJanet |
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But I don't want Russell to be an F! If he gets to the end, he'll win
I'm getting really sick of the Russell show. Still need to go check the edgic thread and see if Mick was somehow more significant than I remember this week. |
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Lady V |
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Foa Foa consistently called Mick their leader.
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fat little fingers |
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Nice to see that FF4 supports a Mick win if he's in the F4. Well, Fathers simply are the best bet if they make the F-2. Foa Foa consistently called Mick their leader. That's true, which is strange, since the edited show hasn't shown his leadership, except in the opening episode and, I think, when he had to choose the people to go to the bocce ball tournament. I agree that what's left of Galu is all Brothers and Sisters. It was interesting how Galu gave consistent confessionals, after Russell S left, that told us how lost they were without his guidance. Laura made it clear earlier in the season that she loves being one of the girls. She's a pretty old teenager, but that appears what she's trying hard to be. Shambo is pretty role-conflicted. She talks like a mother hen at times (like the scene at the fire pit after a TC.) But, she also clearly enjoys being the rough and ready Marine, who wants to see some military discipline in camp. I understand the problems with Evil Russell. He can sound fatherly in some scenes. Natalie tells Dave that Russell's the best crab catcher on Foa Foa. And despite Russell's disrespectful attitude, he does try to motivate them. But, he also makes it clear that his motive is manipulation and control. Can we call someone Father, when they are simply playing a false role? FF4 is based on the idea that the people gravitate to family roles under the stress of the situation and isolation. Russ has never shown real concern for anyone and he's been happy to do harm and mischief if it seems to serve him. Russel reminds me more of Big Tom. Big Tom was benign and friendly, but they both share the same ambiguous role in their group. They're fairly competent in skills and fit in, but they don't really have a core family role. You see no one seeking advice from Russell. And, as said, they have always named Mick when asked who their leader is. Aiga (Galu branch) M- no clear Mother. F- none surviving. E- Shambo (Though she is the Eccentric for the Foa Foans.) D- Laura, Monica, Kelly S- Brett, Dave, John Aiga (Foa Foa branch) M- None surviving. F- Mick E- Russel H D- Natalie S- Jaison Family Final 6 Guess The story tells us that the Foa Foans are the solid group, so they most likely form the core: F- Mick E- Russel H D- Natalie and possibly 1or 2 Galuians. S- Jaison and possibly 1 or 2 Galuains. As we like to announce at this point in the FF4 season, "Let the slaughter of the Siblings begin!" |
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birdlady |
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lol "none surviving"
We didn't see Shambo imediately fill out the FoFo family as their M, as we had expected. She was almost in her second childhood, with the Galu men leading her around and patting her hand, joking that she might vote for Prost at TC (and forgetting the children's names "Who's Erik"?). If I had to pick final six, I'd definitely have F - Mick (not that great at it, but no one else is even close) anti-M - Russell D - Natalie (still hands down the best at her role) E - Shambo I'm not sure about the Sons. Jaison has the connection to the other strong Family members, and might be the best son of what FoFo started with. But he was a whiny quitter baby son for several episodes, before that the principled boy scout son, and now the bookish video game playing son, suddenly interested in playing Survivor if it's all strategy, not survival. Would his family rather have someone more consistent? John (what little we've seen of him) is an elder Son, and Brett (what miniscule we've seen of him) is the cute baby boy. So I'm going to go with the two of them to fill out the Family Six. Definitely no hope for Kelly or Monica, although it seems like having a few extra daughters around doesn't usually bother anyone, so they probably last a little longer. I guess this week either the M/anti-M explosion sends Laura home, or they lose a Son. |
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fat little fingers |
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It'll be interesting to see which E survives the longest, Russell or Shambo.
Russell has the monster stage-hogging edit, but we've had many comments that have Shambo and the other Foa Foans telling us how much they like each other. Both Mick and Jaison said the wanted to adopt her if they could. "Adopt" is a pretty strong word that shows how much she must have filled a family need when she was in Foa Foa's camp. With two Es, one must make FF6. Maybe both and only one to FF4? |
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Lady V |
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Tonight's ep started off with "what Galu didn't know" = Shambo's place with Foa Foa. I believe she voted for Russell tonight, and that
must've been planned by Shambo and Russell on the bridge. The Foa Foans really, really need her right now, and they must know that too much affection for
her will lead to her immediate boot by the Galuvians.
I agree with the F6 guesses above. Shambo and either Dave or John or Brett will have to switch in order for F6s like that to happen (and I don't see Laura or Monica switching). Let's say its eldest son, John, who switches. Slaughter of the sibs: Laura, Monica, Brett and Dave would be the next 4 boots, leaving us with an F6 of Mick (F), Russell (E), Natalie (D), Jaison (S), Shambo (M--I know, I know), and John (S). I know I am the minority opinion here, but I'm sticking with my original rating of Shambo as M. Many times, we've wanted to switch ratings mid-season, and yet, we've refrained. Usually, yes, that means the character won't last to the end. It is really weird not to have an M on a season of Survivor. Shambo has had a lot of M comments directed her way by the Foa Foans, and a lot of adolescent hatred/rebellion/devaluing comments by the Galuvians. Neither she nor Mick are strong parent figures. Maybe what we've got is the Pied Piper of Hamelin (complete with Natalie as the rat catcher! :) ), with the Pied Piper played by sociopathic, creepy Uncle Russ. I feel this season is the most bizarrely edited of all seasons of Survivor; characters seem to switch roles there and back in a single episode! I believe that is why I feel so unsettled watching this season. So, my unpopular F6 opinion, with Jaison and Monica interchangeable: F Mick M Shambo E Weird Uncle Russ D Natalie, (Monica) S (Jaison), John |
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