Official "Worst.Winner.Ever" Thread also, what makes the best player best?

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solesurvivor123		#201	[-]
Posts: 111 (09/24/08 2:02 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Screerider wrote: I'll go as far as saying "winner = luckiest player". Not "best". There's no such thing as "best coin toss results getter." Agreeance
Screerider		#202	[-]
Posts: 23093 (11/25/08 11:26 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And this, from the horse's mouth: molelinkluck wrote: I enjoy answering questions but this is getting a bit tired. Was I the best player in the game.....no Paul was, but I beat him. Mark
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#203	[-]
Posts: 6066 (11/25/08 2:07 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Screerider wrote: And this, from the horse's mouth: molelinkluck wrote: I enjoy answering questions but this is getting a bit tired. Was I the best player in the game.....no Paul was, but I beat him. Mark That's his opinion. According to my criterion, a good player is measured by how close they were to winning, so by definition, the winner is best.
Screerider		#204	[-]
Posts: 23096 (11/25/08 2:17 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	True. Your opinion matters more than the opinion of one who actually played the game.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#205	[-]
Posts: 6067 (11/25/08 2:23 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	All opinions are equal until they are debated and analyzed. Marks opinion is valid if merely based on personal feelings. If he feels Paul is better because he caught onto Craig first or because he is a bigger fan, fine. If he feels that way based on logic, I'd like to hear why, so we can test it.
Screerider		#206	[-]
Posts: 23097 (11/25/08 2:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'll let you have the honor of asking him yourself. :)
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#207	[-]
Posts: 6068 (11/25/08 2:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I thought he was tired of answering questions.
Screerider		#208	[-]
Posts: 23098 (11/25/08 2:41 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	From his number 1 fan? Never!
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#209	[-]
Posts: 6069 (11/25/08 2:46 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I would defend my postion for any winner, even if I don't like them.
Screerider		#210	[-]
Posts: 23101 (11/25/08 3:25 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: I would defend my postion for any winner, even if I don't like them. Oh dear. You don't agree with him and you don't like him. He'll be crushed. Might even wander off in a tizzy. Last Edited By: Screerider 11/25/08 3:28 PM. Edited 1 times.
grassip.molehypogroup		#211	[-]
Posts: 19 (11/25/08 4:03 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: Screerider wrote: And this, from the horse's mouth: molelinkluck wrote: I enjoy answering questions but this is getting a bit tired. Was I the best player in the game.....no Paul was, but I beat him. Mark That's his opinion. According to my criterion, a good player is measured by how close they were to winning, so by definition, the winner is best. I agree!! I played the best game I could but Mark was the best player because he won. This was the hardest thing in the world to go through. You could never imagine how strong of a person you have to be just to make it through the first week. Every player in the game deserves credit for just making it as far as they did. From your couch you can always say you could or would have done better. But I would bet anything that you wouldn't have.
Screerider		#212	[-]
Posts: 23109 (11/25/08 6:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well, we agree you weren't necessarily the "best player", and this thread establishes my reasoning as to why: not enough repeatable data. The "in a tizzy" comment was a reference to how you reacted to the Journal burning. :) And the "thin-skinned" comment from the other thread came from this bit: greenscreener wrote: I'm rather disappointed in Mark's absence, both at the reunion and on the net chatting with fans. I understand that he was offended by some idiotic people here calling him sexist, So blame Greenscreener for planting that seed. You've been on a couple other shows too and won? Good jorb, as we say. Didn't know about that.
smokeydiamond		#213	[-]
Posts: 4 (11/25/08 6:48 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I didn't read the whole thread, but there are so many different objects of this game. Knowing who the mole is is just one of them. You also have to be fast and as accurate as possible on those quizzes. Mark's speed on the quizzes kept him in the game. Paul knew who the mole was early on, but in the end Nicole knew too and was faster than him on the quiz. Mark got a better score than Nicole on the last quiz, therefore he wins the game. That doesn't make him the worst.winner.ever.
greenscreener		#214	[-]
Posts: 117 (11/26/08 12:01 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Screerider wrote: Well, we agree you weren't necessarily the "best player", and this thread establishes my reasoning as to why: not enough repeatable data. The "in a tizzy" comment was a reference to how you reacted to the Journal burning. :) And the "thin-skinned" comment from the other thread came from this bit: greenscreener wrote: I'm rather disappointed in Mark's absence, both at the reunion and on the net chatting with fans. I understand that he was offended by some idiotic people here calling him sexist, So blame Greenscreener for planting that seed. You've been on a couple other shows too and won? Good jorb, as we say. Didn't know about that. Ugh, don't bring me into this. Mark's already not a fan of mine because of certain speculations I made (that I believe were misinterpreted). That comment above was made before certain things came to light. Mark's absence was justified, as was his disappointment at reading those sexist remarks.
Will		#215	[-]
Posts: 32061 (11/26/08 12:13 AM) Not a Registered User anymore Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Screerider wrote: True. Your opinion matters more than the opinion of one who actually played the game.
Screerider		#216	[-]
Posts: 23132 (12/02/08 3:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm moving this discussion out of Mark's Q&A thread, out of respect. Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: And what complete system are you talking about? You're the one who brought up "holistic". Just helping you out with the definition. The "valid data" argument means nothing because you know and I know that there isn't going to be another season, let alone another season with the exact same variables. I agree that we should analyze the players on a macro scale, but because The Mole isn't a sport or something we can replicate easily, it means nothing. Not at all... it just means "best player" is undefined. Again, lack of data does not mean we are required to jump to a conclusion. Quite the opposite. Besides, I am talking about general principle; "winner=best player" is an axiom, it is something that noone has ever disproved. It can't be disproved, it can only be interpreted in face of other axioms. It's disproven constantly in poker. Luck is a part of the game which cannot be removed, and therefore it must be taken as a serious component of the show. Yup... hence my poker analogy, rather than using some deterministic game. It is according to logic. Calling the guy who wins a coin toss the "best player" is not logical. He won a coin toss. Yay.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#217	[-]
Posts: 6220 (12/02/08 6:48 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If you are going to make a logical argument, than it must apply in all situations hence. Your "lack of valid data" argument does, but it is unsatisfying to me because it takes for granted that the same situations can be replicated. Obviously since they cannot, that makes The Mole a game liable to a larger amount of variables, many of which are ignored or undervalued by people with subjective opinions. My arguement that winner=best player falls within every logical parameter regardless of how much data we have, and it is logically satisfying. Sincce a coin toss for example is pure luck, it cannot be open to interpretation in what we are talking about. If Screerider continues to use this as a rebuttal, it means he is assuming Mark had an amount of luck that taints his victory. However, what is considered luck is still up to debate.
Screerider		#218	[-]
Posts: 23135 (12/02/08 7:23 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm not the only one who thinks Mark had some luck in making it to the end: molelinkluck wrote: I have said all along that the one piece of pure luck in the game that I faced was Victoria's execution, because I didn't have Clay to hind behind due to his exemption. The other ties were actually razor's edge strategy that could have blown up on me but didn't. Also, interesting to note his chosen screenname, yes? And if a pure luck "coin toss" scenario doesn't apply to your own "logical" definition, why did you say this? Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: The coin toss winner was the best by virtue that they won. It's total luck,requiring no skill, but they were the "best" of that round.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#219	[-]
Posts: 6224 (12/02/08 8:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Screerider wrote: If a pure luck "coin toss" scenario doesn't apply to your own "logical" definition, why did you say this? Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: The coin toss winner was the best by virtue that they won. It's total luck,requiring no skill, but they were the "best" of that round. Because the game itself is about luck. Valid data means nothing to luck unless you are on of those people who believe in universal consciousness or something. Since the game is about luck, and requires no skill, the victor is best through virtue of them being lucky. When we are analysing the Mole, luck is given a position of undesirability, but how it is analysed is what counts.
Screerider		#220	[-]
Posts: 23137 (12/03/08 11:11 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	So what made the coin toss winner the "best player"? What did he do differently than the other player that gave him the edge? Or did they both play the game equally (i.e. neither is a "better player" than the other), and one just happened to win?

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