I think Matty will win, but if Ken wins, I think a new Edgic guideline should be: The winner will get a CP in episode 1.
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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon
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 chad6 |
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Posts: 1906 (11/18/08 8:58 PM) Registered user |
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 craig |
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Posts: 14321 (11/18/08 9:18 PM) Registered User |
In S13, Raro was thrown under the bus around the Mutiny and Merge much as Fang was the first 6 episodes this season. Jonathan was to Raro as Randy is to Fang.
The way the Mutiny was edited, we know Yul or Ozzy was the winner.
If Corinne, the girl cast to be the evil bitch, wins with a Danni-like comeback, how to you edit the season? You make Fang negative, so average viewers are happy if ANY Kota pulls out a win. And you make a big deal of Marcus, so Corinne can be his avenging angel. And you hide Corinne somewhat behind Randy who feuds more outwardly with Fang. Yes, a Corinne win would explain a lot of editing puzzles this season. As for her true INV in ep.5? Maybe a last-minute decision to highlight that extra-long scene with the elephant cost Kota some throwaway airtime that would have raised Corinne to UTR1. |
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guatemala fanfic |
Close Calls | ||
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Posts: 3939 (11/18/08 9:24 PM) |
Just wanted to post that I will be doing the close call decisions tomorrow evening, as that will give me some time throughout the day tomorrow to review
everyone's posts.
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Casey333 |
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Posts: 187 (11/18/08 9:26 PM) |
You make Fang negative, so average viewers are happy if ANY Kota pulls out a win. Wouldn't it just be easier to edit out Corrine's negative scenes (i.e. the eye roll)? The simplest explanation is usually the right one. We're not supposed to like Corrine. |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 1406 (11/18/08 9:40 PM) |
craig wrote: a) Ken was always among the Edgic leaders from my point of view, and Matty has had some support all along as well. But I don't vote so I'm not reflected on the "official" Edgic scoreboard. Actually, from the sounds of it, a lot of people were so convinced Marcus won that they weren't voting for secondary choices, leaving the floor open for contrarians like yourself to vote Randy and Corinne there. The problem is too many people stopped looking at other candidates once they thought Marcus would win. Plus too many people made too much of the "Dysfunctional Fang sucks at challenges" edit and jumped to premature conclusions about where it was headed. b) Corinne won't win so that's not a concern, and Randy's slim odds dropped precipitously after this last episode so that probably doesn't matter either. The truth is there never was a Kota bandwagon - it was all about Marcus, and the only way to make a case for another Kota was via Marcus, and when Marcus left, the air went out of those theories. The potential "Randy wins" storyline doesn't fit with the direction his edit has taken in the last two episodes so even your fellow contrarians are dropping him. "Unrelentingly" means without any pauses or breaks. Fang's edit has been positive at least the last two episodes so their edit has not been "unrelentingly" negative. And the Fang tribe's negative edit was most associated with players no longer in the game. |
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Casey333 |
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Posts: 188 (11/18/08 9:43 PM) |
And the Fang tribe's negative edit was most associated with players no longer in the game. Good point. |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8786 (11/18/08 10:15 PM) Registered User |
wow.
I don't quite know what to say. Fang was never thrown under the bus. Rewatch Gillian's statement. Fang sucked plain and simple. It's was a reality, and probably they made a big comeback - which I personally think they did to a degree upon the first swap by not winning immunity, but that just confuses the story. I believe Lurker posted about the roll of the Onions and I agree 100%- with the addition that production also lucked out by having Sugar get exhile so many times, surviving to the merge and then siding with Fang. If she had sided with Kota, well maybe we'd get more insight into the strategy of sending her from their point of view -as a means of protecting her. I don't know. And Corrine HAS been carefully crafted. But not in terms of a winner, but as a means for drama -a negative force that is crafty and sly -thus providing more danger for the heros (Bob by being duped, Sugar, Matty). I'm going to go out on a limb and say no winner is going to get a shot on an inserted eye roll when another talks about the recent passing of their father. Hell, I can't believe they put that in regardless -it seems like it's hitting below the belt to a contestant who has to still live in real life (I'm talking about Corrine here) I mean I don't think the Corrine/Randy supporters and I are going to see eye to eye -and if they're right, wow -more power to you. But to me the only stories I see that are going to revolve around the endgame- 1. Sugar and Kenny, and the little dance they are doing around one another -both adapting and learning to play the game. 2. Crystal and her batting zero and possibly redeeming herself. 3. Matty getting out of the ghetto and enjoying his own Eden. But "Kota continued to BEAT up on Fang," "Fang would need a miracle...", "You guys are survivors...", "Don't let them get into your head...", "Welcome to the game", not to mention Sugar and then Sugar and Matty's star along with the music they got together is enough to convince me it's a heavy Matty, Sugar, Kenny, Crystal endgame. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 305 (11/18/08 10:17 PM) Registered User |
Close Calls GF - My 2ยข on the close calls.... Bob - While i voted for Bob to be a CP originally, i realize that this is NOT in the running. Choosing between OTT and MOR... I think i would lean towards a MOR. I feel that Bob was VERY aware of his predicament, he spoke at length (well... at length for Bob) about it. We even got a funny joke! He was also strategic and clever in creating the idol and his reasoning behind it was sound (it's the IDEA of the idol that important)... I suppose one could argue OTT because of the saving one's own skin aspect, but I still feel that his awareness of where he is in the game would be enough to edge him to a MOR. -- Crystal I gave Crystal a MOR and I stand by that. The reason I gave her a MOR is quite simply because ... other than TC... she was pretty much a non-entity in this episode. Even in TC... considering she was arguing with her arch-nemesis... SHE came out sounding some what rational and sane. Randy looked like the sociopath! She asked for examples,, and he could barely articulate them... beyond him thinking that he though Crystal and GC did a poor job of leading ( lead Fang like "a gang" ) and were self-absorbed.... but he came off so explosive. I really think that Crystal was much more...MOR... average, middle of the road, not hiding, but not out there either. MOR -- Corinne. What to say about Corinne. The editors have been trying very hard to paint her as someone WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE... she is being painted as a "Bitch" (which is really just a type of female villian). This is a classic sign of an OTT. OTT are the people we are supposed to love or hate... or love to hate.... And Corinne really falls into that category.. Heck...she even has SPV from this very episode saying that she is "horrendous"... that's a pretty strong word to describe someone. Say it with me... HORRRRRR....ENNNNN...DAAAAAAHHHHS. Corinne has OTT guideline #1 wrapped up (see above). Even though I ignore OTT Guidelines #2 & #3 because they are concerning TONE... and TONE should be addressed using the TONE rankings and not RATING rankings... I would say she even have guideline #2 wrapped up... she WAS negative this episode. Check out the skoffingskeptic's wonderful post on the Negative Math for Corinne. Lastly...OTT Guideline #4... strategy not expressed with much internal conflict. Well... i think that sums up Corinne this episode. Everything Corinne did srategically was shown to be very one sided for Corinne... everything from the condescending "i know, I know" to Sugar to the "I'v ebeen mean to her for 25 days, and i'm nice for 1 day and she's sold...Sugar is a moron" statement shows that Corinne really has no interest in anyone else other than herself, Charlie and Marcus (as she herself put it). Please refer to me Previous OTT post for more info: link I think OTT is a better fit here.... we didn't see any internal conflicts or compex emotions... it was very flat, and very "all about me" (I don;t want to go home... I only care about my alliance, sending bob becuase I THINK he'll find it, blah blah) ...even her reward sequence was "all about Corinne" (I paid attention to that GIRL...Even though that's NOT WHAT I NORMALLY DO!!!!) so CP can't work here.... additionally, MOR is not a good fit here .... she wasn't AVERAGE, She wasn' DOWN-PLAYED, She wasn't ON HOLD, she wasn't just "KIND OF THERE"... she was definately emphasized, and she definately had some serious focus.... and a LARGE part of it wasn't good. Corinne is OTT... she's not Judd-like yet... but damn, she's sure cutting a fine path towards it. She and Randy are just skipping down that yellow-brick OTT road, hand-in-hand, singing...
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
11/18/08 10:20 PM.
Edited 2 times.
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theskoffingskeptic |
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Posts: 24 (11/18/08 11:43 PM) |
craig wrote: I think this
theory's a stretch and rests on a big what-if ( my mind is scoffing skeptically, but my heart is screaming "Oh yes, yes! Please let it be true!")
However, should Corinne win ( *scoffs* ), it's a rational explanation for Gabon's edit. As for the avenging angel comment...I would have
chosen a different adjective.
Last Edited By: theskoffingskeptic
11/18/08 11:46 PM.
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 290 (11/19/08 12:17 AM) |
craig wrote:That is true. Think of Vanuatu... Yasur was the complex tribe because most end-game players came from there. But the winner was a Lopevi. Having a Kota win against all odds would definitely explain the strange editing... but Corrine's INVs don't speak very well for her. |
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 291 (11/19/08 12:31 AM) |
colleenlover wrote:I don't see Crystal redeeming herself... she is either an F3 loser or a blindside boot. Only Ken, Sugar, and Matty from Fang have had a positive edit. Susie has been too INV and too negative (probably an F3 loser). |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1357 (11/19/08 12:57 AM) Registered User |
Craig (naturally) said:
Parvati was a genius social player who got a balanced edit and was only a villian for those with preconceived devotion to Ozzy (that was many average viewers, but they couldn't undo S13 editing).Parvati: "They're all dead to me." Oh, sorry, that doesn't count because it was only said in front of the camera. Oh well, I'm really glad Fairplay quit, and Chet was persuaded to quit injured, and Jonathan was injured, and Kathy quit and James was injured merely so that Parvati could put on that genius social game on display for all to see. It's OK, Craig, I'm not bitter... Not much! 
TLS said: Randy's slim odds dropped precipitously after this last episodeTLS, one can tell you don't frequent the hallowed halls of Vegas that much, lol. When probabilities are low, the odds are high; so Randy's odds were long to start with and got (the opposite of precipitously) longer after the last episode. BTW, does anyone know if any odds are actually in circulation this season? CL said: Sugar and Kenny, and the little dance they are doing around one another -both adapting and learning to play the game.I'm leaning more and more to the idea that Sugar's crazy edit is the key to the season. She's tied to the end game in a number of intriguing ways but I'm thinking that her unusual edit edit portends some pretty strange things coming to pass. Woe betide anyone who crosses this femme fatale. (See post 2955). |
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scepticA |
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Posts: 1428 (11/19/08 1:10 AM) Registered User |
I don't mind N winners. To me, Parv was slightly N last season yet I chose her way before the merge. She was, as i put it, a "good" N in that
there was either strategy or rounding out of her persona in her Ns.
Corrine's Ns are far different. She has twice now talked about how others are morons and she's just so much smarter than them, only to have the dummies blindside her in return. Winners don't get that. In fact, it's making her look both rotten and clueless, and that's a bad thing. When a person gloats and the tables are turned, that is not a winner's edit. As far as her avenging marcus, I do wonder how many viewers think of Marcus as all that heroic. Probably the most Negative winner in Survivor history was Brian H, but he was never shown as clueless. Oh yeah, you saw him sweat bullets at FC, but I just can't imagine SEG wanting to make the winner look all that dumb. Quote: Yes, a Corinne win would explain a lot of editing puzzles this season. It might explain some of the edit puzzles, but wouldn't explain at all Corrine herself, and the awful edit she's gotten. She's not any sort of avenger so far, but an angry, and rather dumb, villain. If she was on a redemption arc we wouldn't have heard her comments about how dumb Sugar is, how stupid Sugar is for trusting Corrine. That sort of remark puts any "redemption" into a tailspin. And this isn't even mentioning the INVs. |
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craig |
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Posts: 14322 (11/19/08 1:34 AM) Registered User |
And the Fang tribe's negative edit was most associated with players no longer in the game.No, the Queen of Negativity is Crystal. I actually flirted with the idea of Kota getting pagonged before Crystal stayed over Ace. And Corinne and Charlie did look good to many posters after ep.2 and ep.3. before they wenet so UTR. If someone ask: How does edgic distinguish the Chris and Danni comback winners from the Steph, Terry, S13 Parvati, and Peih Gee losers, we'd have a hard time. The two comeback winenrs had quite different edits, so so do many of the losers. However, if you look at the tribes that messed up and let them win, Yasur and New Nakum (and Fang) have something in common that separates them from Koror, Casaya (Aras\Cirie), Aitu 4, and Todd's tribe. They got negative editing as a tribe. Rafe called his gang the Axis of Evil, likeable Ami was edited as queen bitch, and so on. |
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craig |
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Posts: 14323 (11/19/08 2:04 AM) Registered User |
Corrine's Ns are far different. She has twice now talked about how others are morons and she's just so much smarter than them, only to have the dummies blindside her in return.Sugar and who else? She was surprised by the Marcus boot, as we all were supposed to be by the Fall of the Kota God. But that wasn't her defeat. She wanted to boot Susie the previous episode, but was overruled by Marcus (and Charlie). And they paid the price. The battle between Corinne and Sugar may have just started, and Corinne won't be trusting her again. (Charlie says that he and Bob worked Sugar the most because she didn't like Corinne and R, so editing fousing on Corinne's strategic role may be set-up for a future rivalry.) Sugar may end up looking like a strategic moron again before it's done (damn, I booted my best buddy Ace by mistake). Yes, Corinne is one of the first females who presents herself as a hardcore gamer and talks about others the way Heidik and Fairplay did. But Marcus or Charlie's spisode 1 line "Corinne is smart" still remainds me of Jonathan's "Parvati is a great social player." Also Corinne's episode 8 comment "I am a vengeful person" seems to foreshadow future deeds of revenge, because she did nothing vengeful that episode and didn't even trashtalk Susie. People who take that line and say "oo they are giving Corinne negative tone" seem tone deaf in regard to foreshadowing. Another example of Corinne's edited efficacy is when she renamed "Fong" the "Fang" tribe, and the previously ill-fated tribe won both challenges while she was on it. By renaming her tribe, she is shown as changing it's fate. Old Fong won't win, but Corinne as a member of Fang 3,0 will.
Last Edited By: craig
11/19/08 2:38 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 306 (11/19/08 10:41 AM) Registered User |
craig wrote: I think that her "What does a 47 year old woman have over me" comment... followed up with Susie winning immunity is a pretty good refute. |
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dennydoylelives |
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Posts: 2734 (11/19/08 11:54 AM) Registered User |
craig wrote:Just becuase there is foreshadowing, doesn't mean that there's no N tone. Taking particulars and personalities out of the equation, Player A says "I can't stand this tribe, I'll do everything in my power to make sure none of them win." Then in future episodes Player A goes on to sabatoge the chances of all members of the tribe edited as Care Bears. The foreshadowing has been done in the storytelling process, and the N tone has been presented as well. Player A is the big bad wolf. or whatever other OTTN allusion you wish to make. |
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Oowatanite |
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Posts: 6360 (11/19/08 11:58 AM) Registered User |
I really hope that Corinne gets booted next so we can all forget about this "Corinne wins" bullshit.
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 1407 (11/19/08 12:03 PM) |
Perhaps, Oo, but you know that craig will just switch his spec to involve Randy winning.
craig, you do realize the purpose of Edgic is to determine who actually wins? It isn't meant for justifying a win for your favorite regardless of edit. Regardless of what we do here, whoever won still won. Picking Corinne won't make her win. |
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AndreSurvivor |
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Posts: 238 (11/19/08 1:03 PM) |
Oowatanite wrote:Corinne doesn't win; both editing and logic strike it out as a possibility, and I don't care if I could get egg on my face. It won't happen; and if it does, I will eat my hat. If any Kota member makes it on the jury with two Fangs, they win, so I doubt Matty, Crystal, Susie or Ken would switch sides. Back when Marcus was our #1 pick, Corinne and Charlie seemed like the types that would might make it to the jury but lose given their INV/UTR statuses; after Marcuth left, their ability to lose was still there, and I now I think she has no chance of making it to the jury either. |
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- Survivor Sucks
- Lions, Tigers, Survivors - Oh My!
- Survivor Spoilers
- MESS Hall Tribal Council
- MESS Hall Archive
- Survivor Speculation
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- Big Brother - PAST SEASONS
- The Apprentice
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- American Idol PAST SEASONS
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- Clubs That Suck. No, Really.
- The Dump
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- In Memory, 9/11/01
