S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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Green Coffee		#3841	[-]
Posts: 113 (12/04/08 11:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: The issue concerns "one INV episode with otherwise decent editing" and there hasn't been many of those in Survivor history. Rafe is the best example, then Danielle (close call INV at merge), now Corinne. That's about it. All of whom lost, so what's the issue? Aside from the one notable (and well explained) exception VERY early in the show's history, INV = death. It is by far the best guideline Edgic currently has because it effectively reduces winning chances to 0 with near 100% accuracy (hell, because we have an explanation for Tina, it may as well be). Until we have solid evidence that proves otherwise, as in a player gets an INV and WINS THE GAME (not just "looks good near the end") this should not be a debateable guideline. It may as well be a "law" of Edgic. If it is disproven, great. Until it actually happens, it should not be argued so that every single person with "just one" (or even two) of them is still viable. In fact, I am curious: does Warrior keep records of all visibility charts ever done? What is the lowest "visibility factor" a player has had at any point and still won the game?
Casey333		#3842	[-]
Posts: 359 (12/04/08 11:40 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Exactly. I've said all along, I'll be happy to ignore the INV rule...as soon as it's proven wrong. It hasn't happened yet. Wake me up when we get an INV winner. And it did help eliminate Rafe, Danielle, Amanda and now Corrine, all of whom had at least some support during their seasons. So it definitely comes in handy.
colleenlover		#3843	[-]
Posts: 8848 (12/04/08 11:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	God, I love this season so much. I actually didn't want anyone to leave including Corrine. Best season in years. And all that I've come away with at the end of this one is that Sugar is still in the final three facing the jury. It's all going to come back to the Kenny/Sugar storyline -does she take him or Matty. I don't know. ps. party was great.
Sicycat		#3844	[-]
Posts: 83 (12/04/08 11:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Not sure if this is the right thread to post this but, I'm sure Susie got a brand new clean plaid shirt after she had her 'bath'... why hasnt she worn it since?
scepticA		#3845	[-]
Posts: 1453 (12/05/08 12:04 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You're right, sisycat. This isn't the right thread. Susie posted over at Pygmy Island under the name Susa. You might want to ask her there after the season ends - if she bothers to come back.
RobVanStratus		#3846	[-]
Posts: 7313 (12/05/08 12:05 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Susie's worn the shirt in a few confessionals, I think. And as far as Kenny's story, it could be similar to Cirie with him growing from boy into a man. Cirie came in as a couch potato afraid of leaves and evolved into this survivalist woman, catching fish, starting fires, etc. She also had a strategic edit like Kenny, but she fell short of the endgame. Again, I'm not trying to say Kenny can't win. I personally think he's been eliminated due to an INV that wasn't given to him for the Paloma boot episode, but if you ignore that I think he's got a chance to win. But, I just am realizing now the similarities between him and Cirie editwise as a growth story arc, and how it is a symbol of someone that doesn't win, but grows mentally/emotionially in the game.
colleenlover		#3847	[-]
Posts: 8849 (12/05/08 12:05 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I loved the ashes moment by the way. this damn Sugar character has like trumped every other player from every season with something dramatic. Are they scripting this?
OnlyTheHunter		#3848	[-]
Posts: 1883 (12/05/08 12:10 AM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	CL said It's all going to come back to the Kenny/Sugar storyline -does she take him or Matty. I don't know. I agree there. We're set up that she's suspicious of Kenny, and trusts Matty. Somehow that doesn't seem to be a straight line. I keep thinking how Matty said that Sugar will play her idol and he could go home. Still there to happen. Bob is awesome, isn't he. Random early thoughts. CPN for Kenny. The perfect, strategic doubt where the focus is making you wonder if he is making a good or bad decision. Which is the focus a winner should have. Matty - did he get a confessional after the proposal? Any explaination about it? Struck me as odd. Not surprised he didn't share it with the tribe, but it was odd to have the confessionals before the proposal and not much after it. Seemed a bit backwards. Susie barely shown even now. Sad. Corrine, you have to trust in Edgic guidelines. Simple as that. A great example of "bad" N. Her negatives weren't making you think about it affecting her position in the game, or her winning chances. Her negatives always made her look like the fool. She was wrong nearly every time. Always undercut in the worst way. And hey, the fifth wheel Bob just outlasted the Kota 4. The recap gave Kenny credit again when it was a consensus type of thing. Boy the recaps this season are sooooo different. So many old scenes to force the story's focus. Don't worry greatly about tone in a family episode. I do think Kenny tended N intentionally, to make you worry about his chances. Sugar and the ashes, Bob and the wife, Matty and the fiancee, hard to see any in anything but a wonderful light. Par the course. If I were on Survivor, and I saw my loved one on a video, I would immediately ask where they were. As I would think that if it wasn't their house, something was up. I'd like to think I'd be alert enough not to be fooled. But I'm also a dumbass, so... Matty got some "classic" doubt too. Maybe the last chance to get rid of him, etc. The difference I feel is that we get Kenny explaining himself. He could have been simply shown as the fool in this episode. Or they could add in the bit of concern when he's alone on the dock. But beyond that, we get his explaining to Crystal how to vote, and then the voting confessional explaining his thoughts. The audience gets his side of it. Reminisicient of Todd for one, where a mistake gets explained by the one commiting it. If Matty won, I'd expect him to sense danger. (And the way they are using interviews in multiple episodes, I'm sure they could have footage of it.) Some doubt about him now. Instead, he's possibly invincible again, as Crystal worried. The wrong thing at this point. Well, going to bed. Night. Ratings to follow sometime. Michael
Sicycat		#3849	[-]
Posts: 86 (12/05/08 12:11 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: You're right, sisycat. This isn't the right thread. Is there a proper thread I can ask this question? thanks....
astroline		#3850	[-]
Posts: 1793 (12/05/08 12:13 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Okay, so Corinne got voted out. I'm bummed my winner pick didn't work out but not surprised. At least I took a chance. Initial ratings... Bob - CP4 (the visit with his wife was borderline P, but the rest of his edit was pretty neutral) Corinne - CPP4 (not the typical CPP edit, more of a Peih-Gee type of thing) Crystal - MOR2 Kenny - CPN4 (this is definitely "good" N. But will next week be?) Matty - OTTP3 Sugar - OTTPP3 (how is she not getting PP's? That scene with her & her sister tearfully putting HER DAD'S ASHES IN A RIVER IN AFRICA was probably the most touching moment I've ever seen on this show minus Jenna not getting her video in Borneo. Seriously, I'm not a Sugar fan and I know some of the rest of you aren't either so please put aside her biases. I've even seen some neutrals for her so far! Completely inaccurate.) Susie - UTRP1 (what little she was shown, it was P. Yeah.) Winners list...? 1. Corinne 2. Who knows?!
10marker01		#3851	[-]
Posts: 89 (12/05/08 12:16 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The post in the spoiler tag deals with the secret scenes on the CBS website, if you consider those spoilers, please do not read. Spoiler [+] From Kenny's talk with his loved one, we know that he wants to take Sugar and Crystal to the end. In a secret scene on CBS' website, Sugar, Crystal, and Ken don't trust Susie at all and in another one, Bob is also telling Matty that Susie wants to target him next. Yet the editors aren't showing this at all, and it's likely that the vote may just be pinned on Susie. A good example of created doubt that isn't there.
OnlyTheHunter		#3852	[-]
Posts: 1884 (12/05/08 12:22 AM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	One other thing just hit me. Who here will raise their hand with me who felt the editors went, "Gotcha!", when we now know that the superfilous turtle soup scene pre-merge was to payoff - for BOB! I did. Michael
Kitty Pryde1		#3853	[-]
Posts: 6913 (12/05/08 12:25 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think the reason Sugar isn't PP is because of Bob's comments at the start of the episode about how Sugar went too far, and how he was upset to have been involved, which goes hand in hand with our OTTN rating last episode.
colleenlover		#3854	[-]
Posts: 8850 (12/05/08 12:33 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	because the concern with the Sugar character isn't to supply a current episode tone (ie. OTTP) but to sculpt the constant throughline to the end of the series -hence, complex.
SwineForkbeard		#3855	[-]
Posts: 1929 (12/05/08 12:50 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I thought that first scene just made Bob look like a hypocrite. I had no problem with him doing it, but it was absurd to suggest that he intended it in a nice way. It was also pretty stupid, when he thought giving Sugar her moment of schadenfreude would somehow benefit him, to make a scene and say he was pissed off at her in front of everybody.
craig		#3856	[-]
Posts: 14420 (12/05/08 4:12 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Bob and Randy weren't close. randy wanted to supplant Bob for a place in the Onion. Only rational way to explain Bob giving Randy the fake idol - he wanted to make sure Randy put a target on himself and went before him. The downside - it probably made Ken\Crystal more skeptical about the 2nd idol.
dcsurvivor		#3857	[-]
Posts: 218 (12/05/08 4:33 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree with CL on two accounts.... 1) that it will all come back to a Kenny/Sugar story line.....I think Sugar is going to be responsible for taking out Kenny.....there is something about Kenny's edit that bothers me and I can't put my finger on it 2) this is the best Survivor in years......YES.......I haven't enjoyed watching this much in a long time......GREAT casting and not at all predictible.... OTH wrote: *If Matty won, I'd expect him to sense danger* I thought he did at Tribal Council. When everyone was talking, before the vote, they kept showing his face in reaction to things being said by Kenny, and Sugar.....I believe........he really looked like he was scared he was going home. I found the face shots interesting, because I thought he was pretty confident that it was Corinne going home. They even focused on him spelling out C-O-R-I-N-N-E in one scene...... I am thinking that Matty is going to go on an immunity run and that the final 3 will be Sugar, Matty, and Crystal...... Of course, with the way this season is going, he'll probably be voted out next week.......
cantthinkofaname		#3858	[-]
Posts: 1244 (12/05/08 5:43 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	In fact, I am curious: does Warrior keep records of all visibility charts ever done? What is the lowest "visibility factor" a player has had at any point and still won the game? Well, I made VF charts for Marquesas and Vecepia had a 0 in episode 6. The only visibility she had in that episode was that Rob mentioned that he doesn't trust her in one of his confessionals. I gave her an INV because that was just a brief mention in a confessional that was mainly about John and Robert screwing up the reward challenge and how he was gonna give it his all in the immunity challenege.
getting real		#3859	[-]
Posts: 1407 (12/05/08 5:51 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	This season will make perfect sense once it's all over (THAT'S what they meant with that episode!). Until then, I'm seeing issues with the edits of all 6 people left. On the contrary, GC, this season has been crystal-clear (so to speak) from the very beginning. The winner will be the person who has been edited to most faithfully embody the concepts of team-work and selflessness over treachery, untrustwothiness and selfishness. That embodiment of goodness always shaped up as a battle between Matty and Kenny, ever since their highlighted rift at the first tribe-swap. At the time, I noted the uniqueness of not only showing the discussion between Matty and Kenny but the subtitling of it as well. Then, Kenny was edited as having made a very bad decision against Matty's advice. I suspect history will repeat itself. To add spice, that rift was shown then, as it is now, as a disagreement in which Bob was involved. As has been building all along, Sugar's Eve-like developing femme fatale role will eventually see her play a role in the demise of every single man, except for the winner, who will be redeemed as the final imprimatur of his goodness. There is a reason why conniving, selfish strategy (see Kota, esp. Corinne) has been shown to have failed at every turn this season. It's because, this is not China, Todd & The Art of War. This is Eden, the triumph of good over evil and of love over petty selfishness and greed.
boardies20		#3860	[-]
Posts: 49 (12/05/08 6:05 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Seems like ages since the last proper episode aired... Bob - CPP5 - RC/IC win, visit with wife, strategy discussions with Corinne and Kenny, knowing his position Corinne - CP4 - Slightly negative, proclaiming the level of incompetence she and Bob are dealing with, and got voted out in the end anway. Crystal - MOR3 - Midst of all the action, strategy, family visit, but no real insight / confessional of what she thought of the Corinne/Bob plan Ken - CPN4 - He messed right up. If you're going to flip, no point voting for Matty half heartedly. He should've got Crystal to vote Matty as well. OR better still just stick with his original 5, let Corinne play the supposedly II, Matty will be gone anyway... Matty - MORP3 - He's the MOR King of Gabon! No sense of danger for him to be the decoy boot. Cheesy marriage proposal but no follow up confessional or sharing with the tribe. Sugar - OTTP3 - Was thinking this or MORP3. Completely mixed tone from the previous episode to this. More fluff regarding her father, scattering his ashes in the river in Africa, emotional confessional Susie - UTR1 - Was she even there??? Winner: 1. Ken 2. Matty 3. Crystal

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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