S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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fat little fingers		#21	[-]
Posts: 5592 (09/24/08 11:19 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RW: Close calls: why not have a system whereby if the category WD agrees with the rating that received the most votes, then you're done. If the category WD does not agree, then the WD states the case for their choice and the overseer makes the final call. This is the way I envisioned it when I posted the intro to this thread. We lose the third opinion: the Individual Watchdog, but I'm game to try this 2-person system and see how posters react to it. It may be fine and we can move on, or we can revise it if necessary. p.s.: feel free to comment further, but I've gotta turn in.
craig		#22	[-]
Posts: 14029 (09/25/08 2:46 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm reserving this spot for anything important I want to put here during the season. Ratings in Non-TC, Non-Ep.1, Non-merge episodes Paloma - INV Jacquie - UTR2 Kelly - INV Ace - INV Dan - UTR1, UTR1, OTT2, OTTN2 Marcus - CP3, CP3, MOR3, MOR3 Charlie - CP3, UTR1, UTR1, INV Randy - MORN3, CPM3, CPP2, OTTN2 Corinne - MOR2, INV, INV, UTR2 Crystal - MORP2 Ken - UTR1 Matty - UTR1 Sugar - INV Susie - INV, MORP2, UTR1, UTR1 Bob - UTR1, UTRP1, UTR1, UTR1 Last Edited By: craig 01/18/09 2:28 AM. Edited 3 times.
Q629		#23	[-]
Posts: 245 (09/25/08 4:21 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	astroline wrote: ^ Until now, Dictatorship. I'm the one who just provided the very first spoiler for the season. =( Not that I even wanted to. I was just talking to my friend and all of a sudden he told me. Nobody else knew about it. I felt like I had to share my info with the spoiler community here, and because of that, I'm out of the running for winner picks obviously. I'll still be doing ratings though of course. =( Uh oh. There are winner spoilers out there?
getting real		#24	[-]
Posts: 1268 (09/25/08 6:35 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hi again to everybody. I come out of hibernation and what do I find? People spoiling for a fight, that's what. Do we really need to revisit old ground about keeping this place clean?
9RedWing19		#25	[-]
Posts: 2221 (09/25/08 7:34 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Yes, Red Wing's suggestion sounds simplest and most workable. But what id there is no majority, and it's a 50-50 split? In this case, the cateogry WD would have voted with one side of the 50/50 split - in the spirit of free speech, let the WD make his/her case (again) and let the Overeer make the final ruling. As I posted earlier, if folks want the close calls highlighted for posterity, there should be a relatively simple way to do so on the charts.
OnlyTheHunter		#26	[-]
Posts: 1611 (09/25/08 8:51 AM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I like Rewing's idea, but then I have a say in the outcome of close calls as a result. Does anyone have major issues with it? It'd be nice to say "give it a go" before tonight so everyone is clear. I read the post finale section of the Vanuatu thread recently. You're consistent, FLF. When he first mentioned the idea, KQ call it "experts" and you haaaaaaaated that term. He eventually came up with "watchdog". I laughed when I saw it reappear here. I get your concern, but I think everyone at this stage remembers their own feeling toward close calls and will carry those thoughts forward, regardless of the call itself. Michael
Phoenix1269		#27	[-]
Posts: 172 (09/25/08 9:47 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	fat little fingers wrote: RW: Close calls: why not have a system whereby if the category WD agrees with the rating that received the most votes, then you're done. If the category WD does not agree, then the WD states the case for their choice and the overseer makes the final call. This is the way I envisioned it when I posted the intro to this thread. We lose the third opinion: the Individual Watchdog, but I'm game to try this 2-person system and see how posters react to it. It may be fine and we can move on, or we can revise it if necessary. p.s.: feel free to comment further, but I've gotta turn in. ok.... i say give it a go as above ... i'm not keen on the Group of 5...simply becuase of things like burnout vs fresh eyes, etc... it's easy to become enmeshed in something and not see the forest for the trees anymore. I do really like OTH's option 5...where if there were several votes that cause the CC , then those who voted for the third wheel... (ie, 10 voters for MOR 10 for CP and 2 for OTT... the 2 OTT should weigh in)... and those extra votes take into account. Perhaps this can be factored in or combined with the above... those voters who fall outside the close call can ecpress their opinion/vote, and that is accounted for by the Grand Poohba ? PS> OTH... beautiful new avi! you're kids are growing up so fast....they are beautiful!
Francois40		#28	[-]
Posts: 2477 (09/25/08 10:08 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9) If two people are a 'known final pair' then the likelihood of them actually being the final two is slim. It would need to be a situation that cannot be avoided (i.e. Amber/Rob) AAARGH...I thought we had finally, finally, agreed to put this doornail down....
astroline		#29	[-]
Posts: 1389 (09/25/08 10:20 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Q629 wrote: astroline wrote: ^ Until now, Dictatorship. I'm the one who just provided the very first spoiler for the season. =( Not that I even wanted to. I was just talking to my friend and all of a sudden he told me. Nobody else knew about it. I felt like I had to share my info with the spoiler community here, and because of that, I'm out of the running for winner picks obviously. I'll still be doing ratings though of course. =( Uh oh. There are winner spoilers out there? No, there aren't. The only thing I know is that my friend had told me that someone doesn't win. So until that person is voted out, I won't be doing any winner picks.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#30	[-]
Posts: 1288 (09/25/08 10:23 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	F-9 S1-No switch, Tagi majority 5-4, Tagi winner S2-No switch, Ogakor majority 5-4, Ogakor winner S3-Switch, Boran majority 5-4, Boran winner - exception S4-Switch, Rotu majority 7-2, Maraamu winner S5-No switch, Chuay Gahn majority 5-4, Chuay Gahn winner S6-Switch, Tambaqui majority 5-4, Jaburu winner S7-No switch, Drake majority 5-4, Drake winner S8-No switch, Chapera plurality 4-3-2, Chapera winner S9-Switch, Yasur majority 6-3, Lopevi winner S10-No switch, Koror majority 8-1, Koror winner S11-Switch, Yaxha majority 5-4, Nakum winner This needs updated (even if I'm not sure it really is technically Edgic). S12 - No switch (the tribes once down to 2 early stayed intact), Casaya majority 6 - 3, Casaya winner. S13 - Switch (the mutiny surely counts as such), Aitu majority 6 - 3, Aitu winner. This would be an exception, but the fact pattern in S13 is hard to pinpoint. Are Jonathan and Candice truly Aitu, or are they Raro? In S12, it was clear that the early tribes had no impact after the cutdown to two tribes, but that is not the case with S13 where Candice (and thus Jonathan) jumped to rejoin their early tribe. If Jonathan and Candice are Raro, then there is a Raro majority 5 - 4, Aitu winner, and the exception disappears. (Or does it? If Jonathan and Candice are Raro, then is there technically a switch?) S14 - Switch, Moto majority 6 - 3, Ravu winner. S15 - Switch, Fei Long majority 6 - 3, Fei Long winner - exception. S16 - Switch, Malakal majority 5 - 4, Malakal winner - exception. Hmm, ever since the juries expanded, the results haven't been following the expectation. What if the jury majority becomes the criteria. S13 - Switch, no majority 6 - 6, Aitu winner. ? S14 - Switch, Moto majority 7 - 5, Ravu winner. S15 - Switch, Fei Long majority 6 - 4, Fei Long winner - exception. S16 - Switch, Malakal majority 6 - 4, Malakal winner - exception. Nope - it no longer holds up. S13 is questionable under either analysis, and both S15 and S16 went against the trend. Perhaps the dynamics are altered when the number of finalists is increased (or expected to be increased) such that there is less reason for a majority to crack.
guatemala fanfic		#31	[-]
Posts: 3790 (09/25/08 10:26 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9) If two people are a 'known final pair' then the likelihood of them actually being the final two is slim. It would need to be a situation that cannot be avoided (i.e. Amber/Rob) AAARGH...I thought we had finally, finally, agreed to put this doornail down.... Yeah, I definitely think this can be dropped after the last few seasons. The people in the end have pretty much always been connected to each other (Becky/Yul, Earl/Cassandra/Dreamz, Todd/Amanda/Courtney, Parv/Amanda, etc.), and have numerous times been pointed out as being in the Final Two/Three (Todd saying that T/A/C would be the "cutest Final Three ever" or something like that). So it seems like, lately, an important pair or group has more of a chance of being in the end together, but of course that has nothing to do with Edgically predicting the "winner."
fat little fingers		#32	[-]
Posts: 5593 (09/25/08 11:15 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Let's stay with the 3 Overall Watchdog/Overseer system for the Tie-Break process. We need a quick, simple way to make the call, that also allows for some general open discussion/feedback before the call is made. This is the best of any plan up to now. The 5-member panel, trying to come to some sort of consensus through pm's and emails is a logistical nightmare. It would frustrate everybody, especially the 5 who are reading and pm'ing and waiting for responses, etc. Most importantly, there would never be enough time to reach a conclusion.
fat little fingers		#33	[-]
Posts: 5594 (09/25/08 11:21 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'll be gone the rest of today. If there is no major complaint posted: We will keep the 2-person "Watchdog/Overseer Tie-Break process for now. I may not be able to post again until after the show tonight. All responses and feedback/opinions welcome, of course. Nothing is ever carved in stone around here. Democracy is a messy messy business!
wallduck		#34	[-]
Posts: 438 (09/25/08 11:51 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Not a complaint ... but why not just let the category watchdog decide close calls? In other words, trust the watchdogs.
guatemala fanfic		#35	[-]
Posts: 3791 (09/25/08 11:54 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Or there could be 2 people appointed to each category watchdog. In the case of a close call, if both category watchdogs agree, then their rating goes as the final. If the two category watchdogs disagree, they will have until Wednesday to re-state their arguments while considering the points of view of other posters. If they do not come to a consensus by Wednesday, then flf will break the tie as overseer. So my suggestion would be two rating, tone, and visibility watchdogs.
RobVanStratus		#36	[-]
Posts: 7078 (09/25/08 1:04 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Maybe this year with no spoilers Edgic can actually play fairly instead of heavily relying on spoilers like most of you do. I'm sick of seeing you guys pick people like Amanda and Parvati as winners because of spoilers, even though Amanda fell flat on her face and lost back to back :)
OnlyTheHunter		#37	[-]
Posts: 1612 (09/25/08 1:10 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Great news! Hey, RobVS, since there are no spoilers, why don't you learn how to play Edgic and join in? It's perfect timing, it's easy to do, and when it works, you'll know it can be done. Win win for all, wouldn't you say? Michael PS - I'm being less sarcastic than you might think. Jump in, water's warm, drinks are cold, and what else can you do with your time if there's nothing to read in spoilers. (And I'm not one of the "most of you" you mentioned, in case you weren't aware.) Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter 09/25/08 1:21 PM. Edited 1 times.
astroline		#38	[-]
Posts: 1390 (09/25/08 1:20 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RobVanStratus wrote: Maybe this year with no spoilers Edgic can actually play fairly instead of heavily relying on spoilers like most of you do. I'm sick of seeing you guys pick people like Amanda and Parvati as winners because of spoilers, even though Amanda fell flat on her face and lost back to back :) But Parvati did win. You're really an idiot. And those of us who have gotten spoiled so far (like me, and Dictatorship) have already admitted it and I've already said I'm not doing any winner picks until the person I know about is voted out. So please stop coming in here with only negative things to say without anything ever to contribute.
chaperone		#39	[-]
Posts: 2545 (09/25/08 2:15 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: I would favour getting rid of the personal watchdogs, have everyone give ratings and comments on the episodes and a group of five veteran unbiased edgicers will settle the close calls. Warrior, flf, OTH, beatles and chaperone would be excellent candidates for this. Everyone can throw their two cents into the close call discussion but these five edgicers would have the final call. This is what I posted previously. And I would recommend that we go with the five veteran edgicers whose ratings EVERYONE has great confidence in. They are reliable participants every week. If Beatles and Chap are unavailable, I would suggest MDN and guatfanfic to join with OTH, Warrior and flf. Scheduling random tiebreaking edgicers sounds like a nightmare to me. Too many edgciers are missing in action during the season, which was one of the big problems with the personal watchdogs the last few years. KISS. The simplest solution is to use the "Group of Five" to break ties. As highlighted in blue above, everyone can participate in the close call discussion, but the final call is up to the GoF. flf, I don't think you need to worry about charges of elitism and inflated egos. Most of us already agree that the power has gone to your head anyway as soon as you got the title of Omnipotent Royal ~~Overlord~~ Overseer. We'll see how the season shakes out for me, you'll definitely "see me" around, but I just can't be relied upon. And while I thank you sincerely for your vote of confidence on ratings, I should confess that for the last 3 years I have developed a spreadsheet to assess the ability of voters, and consistently, with only rare exception, I nearly always fell to the bottom 10% of the posters in doing ratings. So...I'm not your guy! :) If you want a few who are awesome at ratings...according to my assessment (which can basically be summarized as "who is closest to the average of the final ratings" you'll find names like Apollo Italiano (though new, he/she was always in the top 3 every week last season), Guatemala Fanfic, Warrior, Unduli, FLF, Jamalle, and DennyDoyleLives. That's not an exhaustive list, but those folks are not only rarely outside of a standard deviation from the mean, but they're consistently in the top 5 voters most weeks. I, however, would encourage toward an organic route...the simple and clear one proposed sounds great. ETA: I'm psyched for the premier tonight! We're having a Survivor and The Office HD party after youth group. Last Edited By: chaperone 09/25/08 2:20 PM. Edited 1 times.
astroline		#40	[-]
Posts: 1392 (09/25/08 2:21 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Chap, I'm sure I was in the bottom 10% too!

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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