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 Warrior |
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Posts: 2672 (10/13/08 6:31 PM) Registered User |
acvb wrote: Page 1, second post...under guidelines. |
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RageBot |
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Posts: 238 (10/13/08 7:28 PM) |
I didn't manage to watch the episode before today since i've gone on vacation on friday (usually when a new episode goes up on the internet, it's 4 AM where I live so I view the episode on friday morning and had internet problems till this today. Ratings after one view: Sugar - UTRP1 Kota Bob - UTR2 Charlie - MOR2 Corrine - INV (I guess she's eliminated, huh?) Dan - UTR1 Marcus - MOR3 Randy - UTRP3 Susie - MOR3 Fang Ace - MORN3 Crystal - CP4 GC - OTTN3 Jacquie - MORP2 Kelly - MOR3 Ken - CP4 Matty - UTR2 |
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 210 (10/13/08 9:08 PM) Registered User |
blast... i thought i had posted these already... ah well here they are anyway...
FangNu Matty - MOR4 still narrates, still is wishy washy, but does give good TC Answers Crystal - CPN4 There can be NO DEBATE on whether she is negative. Everyone has a problem dealing with her, she is ultra defensive about her own abilities, she was shown as part of the Idiot Allice AND being lazy AND criticizing others. Even if we got in her head to hear her side of it and her being "nice" to Jacquie <complete with eye rolls> .... she is still negative GC - OTTN4 - after 4 episodes of being told he is a cancer AND we are reminded YET AGAIN of his poor decisions and the whole leader fiasco... the editors reinforce the negativity by showing him as part of the idiot Alliance and also his lazyness. Heck he even laughs at Ken's poor challenge performance, even though he didn't do any better Ken - OTTN4 - "Ken is useless" and this statement is reinforced by the 30 some odd separate shots of Ken laying around doing f-all. WTF. Lazy always = Negative, and the Idiot alliance association of course. Kelly - OTTN4 - she is called a "whiny cow" and this is completely 100% supported in the editing. From her whining in the challenge "I can't move" to her whining about not fitting in at Kota. Mostly though it's because she has no clue what Fake means - case in point: "they <old Kota> are so fake... i mean, i work in sales and i can analyze people and i get along with all personalities, i can even change my personality and act like something else if i need to." WTF?!?!? Jacquie - MOR4... i didn't see her overly positive or negative, it just seemed like a real factual account of what happened to her. I don't feel that i know her any more now than in the previous 3 episodes. Ace - MORM3 I at first wanted to give him a CP... as he did express himself well... but after thinking about it, i realize that it was mostly reporting and driving the story with sound bites... not a lot of depth or reasoning. Even if he does have some FANTASTIC lines (sleek weasels LOL). I thought he was mixed because he did have some really reinforced positive moments regarding the challenge, even if most of what he says is somewhat neg. Kota2 Marcus - CP2... he gets to explain how it feels to be selected #1 MVP on his tribe and what it means. Also gets to explain his (potential) decision on Susie vs Randy Charlie - OTT2... for the 4th episode in a row, we are hit over the head with a hammer about Charlie being in love with Marcus. We hear nothing else from him but how much he loves Marcus... This is not UTR... this is OTT. Bob - UTRP1 - diamond in the rough Corinne - UTR1 - i know most of you think she's is Invisible... but she spoke as much as Bob did at the pick'em and she did have some challenge related stuff. She also spoke 2x at camp that i don't think made it onto the chart. She initiated the Yucky TC conversation with Ace at the beginning and she also commented on the lacrosse stick. That and a fair bit of Corinne "face time" at the row boat challenge = UTR1 (this doesn't mean I think she's winning, cause i don't... but i think INV is unfair to her). Randy - CP3. I don't think he was negative and don't think he was positive, but mixed doesn't feel right either. I felt he was really manipulated this episode. I even laughed a few times. This was complex editing. (ETA: See OTH's fine comments about it, he said it better than i ever could, so i deleted what i had cause it sucked.) Susie - MOR2 - she spoke and shared her thoughts on how best to stay... She copies Bob. Dan - UTR1 poor sod Sugar Shack Sugar - MORP2 - she's on exile again and tells us what we are supposed to think of Fang. If Fang doesn't vote of Kelly, they are idiots. I wouldn't argue a UTR here though. Winners: Marcus Randy Ace (according to my chart, he never got an INV... but even still, he's a distant 3rd) somewhere in between: matty crystal Hanging by a thread corinne ken gone: Kelly Jacquie Susie Sugar Paloma charlie GC bob |
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Phoenix1269 |
Episode 4 - Ratings | ||
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Posts: 211 (10/13/08 9:13 PM) Registered User |
Overall Rankings
MOR(M)? - Ace Gordon UTRP1 - Bob Crowley UTR1 - Charlie Herschel ?1 - Corinne Kaplan CPN4 - Crystal Cox UTR1 - Dan Kay MORN4 - GC Brown MORP4 - Jacquie Berg UTRP2 - Sugar Kiper OTTN3 - Kelly Czarnecki ?N4 - Ken Hoang CP3 - Marcus Lehman MOR4 - Matty Whitmore CP(M)3 - Randy Bailey MORP2 - Susie Smith Episode Rating Averages From most to least (INV=1, UTR=2, CP=3, MOR=4, OTT=5) 4.81 - Kelly Czarnecki 4.10 - Jacquie Berg 4.05 - Ace Gordon 4.05 - GC Brown 3.95 - Matty Whitmore 3.71 - Ken Hoang 3.43 - Marcus Lehman 3.38 - Crystal Cox 3.19 - Randy Bailey 3.14 - Susie Smith 2.86 - Sugar Kiper 2.29 - Charlie Herschel 2.00 - Bob Crowley 1.76 - Dan Kay 1.52 - Corinne Kaplan Episode Tone Averages From most to least (NN=-2, N=-1, neutral=0, P=1, PP=2) 0.905 - Jacquie Berg 0.667 - Susie Smith 0.619 - Bob Crowley 0.571 - Sugar Kiper 0.190 - Marcus Lehman 0.143 - Matty Whitmore 0.048 - Randy Bailey 0.000 - Charlie Herschel 0.000 - Corinne Kaplan 0.000 - Dan Kay -0.333 - Ace Gordon -0.571 - Crystal Cox -0.762 - Ken Hoang -0.857 - Kelly Czarnecki -0.952 - GC Brown Episode Visibility Averages From most to least 4.10 - GC Brown 4.05 - Ken Hoang 4.00 - Crystal Cox 3.90 - Jacquie Berg 3.90 - Matty Whitmore 3.48 - Ace Gordon 3.29 - Kelly Czarnecki 3.14 - Randy Bailey 2.57 - Marcus Lehman 2.05 - Susie Smith 2.00 - Sugar Kiper 1.19 - Charlie Herschel 1.05 - Bob Crowley 1.05 - Corinne Kaplan 1.00 - Dan Kay Close Calls Rating Corinne Kaplan INV (47.6%), UTR (52.4%), CP (0%), MOR (0%), OTT (0%) Ken Hoang INV (0%), UTR (0%), CP (38.1%), MOR (52.4%), OTT (9.5%) Tone There were no close calls for TONE for Episode 4 Visibility Ace Gordon 1 (0%), 2 (0%), 3 (52.4%), 4 (47.6%), 5 (0%) eta: BTW - OTH, AMAI, Blake, cantthink... yes i received all of your votes today and they are included in the tallies... thanks!
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
10/13/08 10:21 PM.
Edited 2 times.
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Phoenix1269 |
Episode 4 - MOR Diff & Season Averages | ||
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Posts: 212 (10/13/08 9:20 PM) Registered User |
Season Rating Averages
From most to least INV=1, UTR=2, CP=3, MOR=4, OTT=5 4.63 - Gillian Larson 4.21 - Michelle Chase 3.79 - Crystal Cox 3.74 - GC Brown 3.51 - Randy Bailey 3.40 - Marcus Lehman 3.39 - Charlie Herschel 3.31 - Matty Whitmore 3.25 - Ace Gordon 3.06 - Ken Hoang 3.00 - Bob Crowley 2.68 - Corinne Kaplan 2.56 - Sugar Kiper 2.42 - Paloma Soto-Castillo 2.33 - Dan Kay 2.21 - Kelly Czarnecki 2.18 - Susie Smith 2.15 - Jacquie Berg Season Tone Averages From most positive to least NN=-2, N=-1, neutral=0, P=1, PP=2 0.491 - Bob Crowley 0.488 - Sugar Kiper 0.259 - Jacquie Berg 0.167 - Susie Smith 0.112 - Marcus Lehman 0.096 - Charlie Herschel 0.081 - Ken Hoang 0.079 - Matty Whitmore 0.076 - Crystal Cox 0.032 - Dan Kay -0.052 - Corinne Kaplan -0.196 - Randy Bailey -0.287 - Kelly Czarnecki -0.333 - Paloma Soto-Castillo -0.405 - Gillian Larson -0.469 - Ace Gordon -0.522 - GC Brown -0.917 - Michelle Chase Season Visibility Averages From most to least 4.46 - Michelle Chase 4.35 - Gillian Larson 3.74 - GC Brown 3.46 - Randy Bailey 3.20 - Crystal Cox 3.06 - Ace Gordon 2.84 - Marcus Lehman 2.79 - Ken Hoang 2.62 - Matty Whitmore 2.46 - Sugar Kiper 2.38 - Charlie Herschel 2.27 - Corinne Kaplan 2.26 - Paloma Soto-Castillo 2.23 - Dan Kay 1.97 - Jacquie Berg 1.86 - Bob Crowley 1.58 - Kelly Czarnecki 1.50 - Susie Smith MOR differencial Sum difference from middle of road for total season 3.58 - Michelle Chase 3.39 - Gillian Larson 2.49 - Kelly Czarnecki 2.49 - Susie Smith 2.14 - Jacquie Berg 2.00 - GC Brown 1.65 - Paloma Soto-Castillo 1.64 - Bob Crowley 1.48 - Dan Kay 1.47 - Sugar Kiper 1.17 - Randy Bailey 1.10 - Charlie Herschel 1.10 - Corinne Kaplan 1.07 - Crystal Cox 0.78 - Ace Gordon 0.78 - Matty Whitmore 0.67 - Marcus Lehman 0.35 - Ken Hoang |
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Phoenix1269 |
Winners & Losers (Episode 4) | ||
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Posts: 213 (10/13/08 9:28 PM) Registered User |
Edgic Losers
Percentage of possible loser votes 85.00% - Ace Gordon 80.00% - Bob Crowley 50.00% - Charlie Herschel 50.00% - Corinne Kaplan 55.00% - Crystal Cox 80.00% - Dan Kay 90.00% - GC Brown 95.00% - Jacquie Berg 90.00% - Sugar Kiper 100.00% - Kelly Czarnecki 70.00% - Ken Hoang 0.00% - Marcus Lehman 45.00% - Matty Whitmore 30.00% - Randy Bailey 100.00% - Susie Smith Edgic Winners Percentage of winner votes received 3.33% - Ace Gordon 0.00% - Bob Crowley 13.33% - Charlie Herschel 16.67% - Corinne Kaplan 8.33% - Crystal Cox 0.00% - Dan Kay 0.00% - GC Brown 0.00% - Jacquie Berg 0.00% - Sugar Kiper 0.00% - Kelly Czarnecki 0.00% - Ken Hoang 98.33% - Marcus Lehman 6.67% - Matty Whitmore 35.00% - Randy Bailey 0.00% - Susie Smith Question for FLF / Warrior et al... do you want Episode 1, 2 & 3 Winner/Loser votes posted also? thx eta: to remove the old losers from my list... hilarious, i completely forgot. thanks OTH!
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
10/13/08 10:05 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1700 (10/13/08 9:50 PM) Edgician |
Checked on the rankings for the week. I snicker at some of the complaints about endless Tone debates, and yet I've had 1 Tone close call this season, and
in this episode none with 10 of 15 players earning a Tone other than neutral. There seems to be similar viewpoints across the Edgic spectrum, even when I
don't share them! :-) And we certainly are not failing to hand out ratings beyond neutral this season, with sharp characterizations.
Oh boy, the close call on Corrine. I saw that one coming. Let me only offer this, based on my experience. I eliminated Cirie last Cirie at episode 1, since I felt she was UTR1 and in episode 1 that's an eliminator. Overall, we as a group voted her episode as UTR2. I never failed to list her as eliminated. I ended up correct she didn't win, but had she won, so be it. I also remember the few voted for INV Yul got. If you voted Corrins INV this episode, and also feel INV is an eliminator, will you stick to that decision regardless of the close call? I wonder if Phoenix can track that, behind the scenes, throughout the season. If you don't believe it is a killer, no problem. But stick to your rankings. I called her INV, I had no idea she spoke at camp, still don't, and she certainly was not given one bit of weight that I saw. I couldn't change that opinion. Do you really feel that fans felt Corrine weighed the decision, or that she, like everyone watching, avoided GC because he's GC. Had we gotten a confessional behind her reasoning, this conversation doesn't take place. But she didn't. That's the problem in a turn episode like this. The choice involving Kenny ended as expected, was he CP or not? I didn't vote that way, but I debated it. See where it falls. He was (I presume) a CP vote away from avoiding a close call. Mine counts for that. Hmmmm. Ace, I call a 4, between SPV from Sugar and Probst calling out his challenge performance, but I don't sweat a 3 either. Michael ETA - Phoenix - you can safely remove the eliminated players from the "edgic losers". I don't think an outcast twist saves Michelle, for example. :-) |
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Seyz |
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Posts: 235 (10/13/08 9:53 PM) |
If Marcus really ends up winning this season, then I don't think Edgic is necessary anymore. It has been way too obvious the last couple of seasons,
starting with Earl, Todd, Parvati. Why can't we have a Vecepia edit for once? Geez.
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YemaGrl1988 |
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Posts: 2325 (10/13/08 9:57 PM) Registered user |
Seyz wrote: That's S18. If you do the math... |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 5837 (10/13/08 10:06 PM) |
Close Calls:
Corinne: She was INV. She's not winning. Don't try to keep her in contention by giving her a false rating. She had no memorable moments. The scene of her picking Susie instead of GC was to give RANDY and GC screentime and develop them, not for Corinne. Ken: MOR, no doubt. Yes, we got into his head, and yes, we got to see his thought process and character development. However, this was mixed in with him saying he was picking Kelly because she's hot, this was mixed with him being a loser at the challenges. He was a combination of CP and OTT, which is MOR. Ace: Warrior's chart gave him a 3, didn't it? Honestly, I just base my Vis votes on the chart nowadays, unless there's something that seems EXTREMELY off. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 214 (10/13/08 10:18 PM) Registered User |
Close Call: Ace's Visibility...
the chart gives a VF rating of 4-3 with a V factor of 34 which puts him just a tiny bit on the 4 side of things (cut off being 32). Personally, I gave him a 3... and not because don't believe the chart... but because he didn't feel like a 4. Maybe it's because i tend to weigh challenge performance a little lower... or maybe because i felt like he was purposefully held back a bit. He just didn't seem to be a 4 the same way Crystal, Ken and GC were 4's. Not even close. I can't explain it more than that. I think the fact that so many people voted Ace a 3... even with a great resource like Warrior's Vis Chart... speaks volumes. Ace's Visibility = 3 |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 1323 (10/13/08 10:28 PM) |
CP + OTT is not MOR. The ratings don't function that way. CP means fairly developed and multi-dimensional. MOR means unclearly developed without much
clarity on dimensions. OTT means fairly developed but in a one dimensional fashion.
For Ken, I'd lean toward CP though it was not as strong as it could have been. While he may have said Kelly was hot, he made clear that wasn't the only reason he was picking her. He gave the "why" to his actions that was missing from others people have touted as CP. Plus, he did have a part in the choice between Jacquie and Kelly (though not as clearly as Crystal did). OTT doesn't fit Ken at all. If all we saw was him picking Kelly while claiming she's hot without any other explanation and the challenge footage of being useless, sure that could arguably be OTT, but that isn't all we saw. We saw a player thinking ahead and explaining his actions and perhaps even struggling with a difficult choice. As for Corinne, who cares? INV's a bogus rating, and it is exactly situations like this that make it so. Are we going to say that if the consensus says she's UTR, she's still a potential winner, but if the consensus says she's INV, she's not? It is the same edit either way. I actually hope you do all decide that she is INV and that she goes on to win just to drop this pointless INV rating once and for all.
Last Edited By: TheLurkerSpeaks
10/13/08 10:41 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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 BlakeB717 |
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Posts: 997 (10/13/08 10:32 PM) Registered user |
Ace was a 4 on Warrior's chart.
Kenny was CP, as all his comments were strategic and showed interesting developments and his thoughts on who was the leader of their team. Nothing distracting about his edit this time around, and nothing bland. The video game player is a player in all senses of the word! Corrine was UTR to me, and she's #4 on my winners list, but if she gets neglected again she's dunzo. |
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scepticA |
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Posts: 1404 (10/13/08 11:30 PM) Registered User |
Not to drag up last season, but wasn't there a tribe switch episode where Parv said almost nothing (and these are supposedly very important episodes!),
with the exception of her correcting the pronunciation of her name at the swap? How much greater was her visibility than Corrine's?
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BlakeB717 |
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Posts: 998 (10/13/08 11:47 PM) Registered user |
Someone could also argue that Parvati's next to nothing edit in Ep6 didn't matter because in like 3 recaps they said "Parvati and James were split
from their allies" and Parvati would say "Don't look so sad" every time. Like it was important. The key difference that makes this swap
important is that people were ranked, which has never been done before, and someone showing self-awareness for that ranking is very winner-esque (Marcus).
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1701 (10/14/08 12:18 AM) Edgician |
scepticA said
Not to drag up last season, but wasn't there a tribe switch episode where Parv said almost nothing (and these are supposedly very important episodes!), with the exception of her correcting the pronunciation of her name at the swap? How much greater was her visibility than Corrine's? Well, one major difference, and then a minor one. Biggest difference is that her change of positions in the game was mentioned, by other players. You can see what I wrote here and see that she got SPV before the switch from two different players, focus when the switch happened, and late notice from Jonathon about her injury. The injury thing was odd since it was ignored in Ami's case, and at least someone else, but Parvati was mentioned. CL noted here about it being something to watch. Of course, TLS didn't care about the rating then and wouldn't today, that's fair. And FLF had Parvati as a top pick that week despite not noting some of the things others did in his post. (Then at some point changed his mind. But I had Alexis, no trash talk from me!) Corrine had no reinforcement of her alliance, the way Charlie got the random one (and nothing is random, we know). She was not mentioned in context of her episode 1 comment, nor where she stood before the switch, and got nothing after it. The lack of any depth of any kind here is a concern. Michael |
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craig |
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Posts: 14172 (10/14/08 4:04 AM) Registered User |
Corinne UTR1
First, on the principle that INV should be clear-cut. Nobody should be rated INV if 50+ of the vote says otherwise. (I didn't vote but would have increased the UTR majority.) Second, because her edit was barely distinguishable from Charlie, Bob, and Dan (there were several "2 sentence" people on W's chart), and none of them got INV. No, Corinne didn't have attention drawn to an injury or her challenge performance, as Parv did last season. Their switch edits don't compare. BTW there is an Insider Clip about Corinne and Randy bonding and being kindred spirits. Corinne and Jacquie were not close like Parv and Amanda (based on Jacquie's Insider comments). I suspect it was Charlie who brought her into the Onion as as Eliza surrogate. So Corinne may have gained more than she lost in terms of Onion positioning. Question: If Corinne and Randy were finalists and key allies, would you expect them to hide their relationship initially, or have trumpets play when Randy picks her?
Last Edited By: craig
10/14/08 4:16 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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unduli clone |
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Posts: 3059 (10/14/08 5:48 AM) Registered User |
Phoenix1269 wrote:I rearranged those in descending order because it helps me keep track better.  at Marcus' 98%!!!!
Seyz wrote:The only clear-cut edit in recent seasons was Earl. Todd, Parvati and Yul seemed obvious after the fact, but in reality Todd wasn't the consensus vote at the finale (Amanda was), Parvati was hotly debated (even though I do think she was kind of obvious) and Yul versus Ozzy was also a season-long debate that only ended with the final vote for Yul at the reunion. |
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Warrior |
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Posts: 2673 (10/14/08 6:19 AM) Registered User |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 1324 (10/14/08 7:09 AM) |
In answer to your question, Craig:
If the Corinne - Randy pairing was important to keep secret for the endgame to build suspense, then they wouldn't show it, but they also wouldn't release it as part of the Insider. If the Corinne - Randy pairing was important to be shown for the endgame to foreshadow dynamics, then the tendency would have been to show it. (It could still come up later, particularly if there's no real tension on Kota for awhile, but the further it is delayed, the less important it becomes.) The Insider, to me, is a compilation of information that is no longer intended to be secret but that is not overly important to the story being told. A lot of times, it will hold information about alliances that fell apart during the episode or were made irrelevant due to game dynamics. It may be useful for Edgic in gauging how events were shown compared to how they could have been shown to determine the editing intent, but we aren't going to find secret hints in it. I'm really surprised how many are high on Randy as a potential winner. He's been the most visible player in the game by far and has gotten large amounts of visibility every episode. He could go far or flame out around the merge, but he's not winning. |
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