S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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colleenlover		#1661	[-]
Posts: 8612 (10/26/08 8:58 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	parnurge, sorry -don't know if or what we are debating- and probably my attention has been diverted, and I'm all over the map these days with my typing. If you are bringing up valid reasons why Marcus doesn't win, by all means, don't let me stop you. I'm all for it. I think I meant that the characters confined to a role, doesn't mean that role can't win. It's how it's handled. For instance, if Colleen had won, I don't think they would take a different approach with editing out her personality, just tweak the editing so she'd be more in danger and put into question if she'd get the votes in the end. So, aside from Marcus, I'm looking for things that forshadow the endgame. Eliza's comment about Cirie on the canoe with Parvati and Amanda; Jean Renault's prophecy of Courtney, etc. The strongest forshadowing I'm finding is with Sugar- again, the puppet, the drag to the end, the dumb comment. I'm usually good at getting the endgame, but not the winner. So, I went out on a limb this time by not overthinking things, and declaring Marcus the winner. Hopefully this new approach, blows up in my face.
Phoenix1269	EPSIODE 6 - Episode Ratings & Close Calls	#1662	[-]
Posts: 234 (10/26/08 9:00 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Overall Rankings CPN5 - Ace Gordon UTR1 - Bob Crowley INV1 - Charlie Herschel UTR2 - Corinne Kaplan CPN5 - Crystal Cox OTTN2 - Dan Kay MORP3 - Sugar Kiper MORN3 - Kelly Czarnecki MOR4 - Ken Hoang ?3 - Marcus Lehman ?P5 - Matty Whitmore OTTN2 - Randy Bailey UTR1 - Susie Smith Episode Rating Averages From most to least (INV=1, UTR=2, CP=3, MOR=4, OTT=5) 4.41 - Randy Bailey 4.24 - Dan Kay 4.18 - Sugar Kiper 4.18 - Kelly Czarnecki 3.94 - Ken Hoang 3.88 - Matty Whitmore 3.47 - Crystal Cox 3.12 - Marcus Lehman 3.00 - Ace Gordon 2.12 - Corinne Kaplan 2.00 - Bob Crowley 2.00 - Susie Smith 1.18 - Charlie Herschel Episode Tone Averages From most to least (NN=-2, N=-1, neutral=0, P=1, PP=2) 0.941 - Matty Whitmore 0.882 - Sugar Kiper 0.176 - Bob Crowley 0.059 - Marcus Lehman 0.000 - Charlie Herschel 0.000 - Corinne Kaplan 0.000 - Ken Hoang 0.000 - Susie Smith -0.529 - Kelly Czarnecki -0.588 - Crystal Cox -0.882 - Ace Gordon -1.000 - Dan Kay -1.000 - Randy Bailey Episode Visibility Averages From most to least 5.00 - Crystal Cox 4.94 - Ace Gordon 4.65 - Matty Whitmore 3.71 - Ken Hoang 3.29 - Kelly Czarnecki 2.94 - Sugar Kiper 2.65 - Marcus Lehman 2.12 - Dan Kay 2.12 - Randy Bailey 1.71 - Corinne Kaplan 1.12 - Bob Crowley 1.06 - Susie Smith 1.00 - Charlie Herschel Close Calls Rating Marcus Lehman INV (0%), UTR (41.2%), CP (5.9%), MOR (52.9%), OTT (0%) Matty Whitmore INV (0%), UTR (0%), CP (52.9%), MOR (5.9%), OTT (41.2%) Tone There were no close calls for TONE for Week 6 Visibility There were no close calls for VISIBILITY for Week 6
Phoenix1269	MOR Differential & RTV Season Averages - Episode 6	#1663	[-]
Posts: 235 (10/26/08 9:01 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	MOR differential Sum difference from middle of road for total season 3.58 - Michelle Chase 3.39 - Gillian Larson 2.73 - Susie Smith 2.34 - GC Brown 2.17 - Bob Crowley 2.14 - Jacquie Berg 1.77 - Kelly Czarnecki 1.76 - Corinne Kaplan 1.65 - Paloma Soto-Castillo 1.60 - Crystal Cox 1.34 - Charlie Herschel 1.20 - Ace Gordon 1.07 - Dan Kay 1.06 - Matty Whitmore 0.91 - Randy Bailey 0.86 - Sugar Kiper 0.67 - Marcus Lehman 0.38 - Ken Hoang BREAKDOWNS: Season Rating Averages From most to least (INV=1, UTR=2, CP=3, MOR=4, OTT=5) 4.63 - Gillian Larson 4.21 - Michelle Chase 3.90 - GC Brown 3.80 - Crystal Cox 3.65 - Randy Bailey 3.50 - Matty Whitmore 3.40 - Marcus Lehman 3.32 - Ace Gordon 3.29 - Ken Hoang 3.16 - Sugar Kiper 2.92 - Dan Kay 2.79 - Charlie Herschel 2.60 - Bob Crowley 2.52 - Kelly Czarnecki 2.42 - Paloma Soto-Castillo 2.31 - Corinne Kaplan 2.15 - Jacquie Berg 2.03 - Susie Smith Season Tone Averages From most positive to least (NN=-2, N=-1, neutral=0, P=1, PP=2) 0.620 - Sugar Kiper 0.376 - Matty Whitmore 0.357 - Bob Crowley 0.259 - Jacquie Berg 0.111 - Susie Smith 0.084 - Marcus Lehman 0.064 - Charlie Herschel 0.045 - Ken Hoang -0.034 - Corinne Kaplan -0.154 - Dan Kay -0.177 - Crystal Cox -0.186 - Randy Bailey -0.270 - Kelly Czarnecki -0.333 - Paloma Soto-Castillo -0.405 - Gillian Larson -0.515 - Ace Gordon -0.618 - GC Brown -0.917 - Michelle Chase Season Visibility Averages From most to least 4.46 - Michelle Chase 4.35 - Gillian Larson 3.82 - GC Brown 3.63 - Crystal Cox 3.37 - Ace Gordon 3.19 - Matty Whitmore 3.08 - Randy Bailey 2.95 - Ken Hoang 2.93 - Sugar Kiper 2.81 - Marcus Lehman 2.26 - Paloma Soto-Castillo 2.17 - Dan Kay 1.97 - Kelly Czarnecki 1.97 - Corinne Kaplan 1.97 - Jacquie Berg 1.93 - Charlie Herschel 1.59 - Bob Crowley 1.34 - Susie Smith Last Edited By: Phoenix1269 10/27/08 8:15 AM. Edited 1 times.
Phoenix1269	Winners & Losers (Episode 6)	#1664	[-]
Posts: 236 (10/26/08 9:02 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Edgic Losers Percentage of possible loser votes 0.00% - Marcus Lehman 37.50% - Matty Whitmore 43.75% - Randy Bailey 62.50% - Ken Hoang 81.25% - Ace Gordon 87.50% - Corinne Kaplan 87.50% - Crystal Cox 87.50% - Sugar Kiper 93.75% - Bob Crowley 93.75% - Charlie Herschel 100.00% - Dan Kay 100.00% - Kelly Czarnecki 100.00% - Susie Smith Edgic Winners Percentage of winner votes received 0.00% - Bob Crowley 0.00% - Dan Kay 0.00% - Sugar Kiper 0.00% - Kelly Czarnecki 0.00% - Susie Smith 2.08% - Charlie Herschel 2.08% - Crystal Cox 6.25% - Ace Gordon 8.33% - Ken Hoang 10.42% - Corinne Kaplan 16.67% - Randy Bailey 31.25% - Matty Whitmore 95.83% - Marcus Lehman
beatles20147		#1665	[-]
Posts: 11873 (10/26/08 10:30 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: Is the reason people are eliminating Ace strictly because "episode 2" INV? I'm pretty dogmatic about eliminating INV's, but for an "episode" which was debatably even an episode (I think the 2 hour premier should be handled more carefully), I'd be cautious to eliminate the person who seems to be getting the story told about him. The last several seasons haven't varied too much from the winner's story. This season seems to be all about how Ace continues to make it through. His OTT is the most negative part of his winner changes in my mind. I have Ace as my #2 pick at the moment and IIRC have for the past two weeks as well. I'm surprised at the severe percentage of elimination votes he has; I really hope it has to do with something I'm missing that's beyond the "episode 2" INV. He's getting more airtime than your average winner but that's because: A) he's entertaining--you're not gonna throw out a piece of gold just because you want to present a piece of silver (weird analogy, but hey, I'm tired), and B) his personality alone is abrasive enough to provide automatic doubt. I daresay he has the potential to be the Richard Hatch that people aren't fond of but can't help but respect (although in Hatch's case it was years after the fact). Because the first two episodes aired on one night, Ace still likely stood out after the second hour because of the way he was portrayed in the first. That said, Marcus is a more 'perfect' winner that audiences will adore after being less than thrilled with Parvati's win so that's what I'm expecting. But forgive me for holding onto hope that we might see a winner with a shred of personality.
OnlyTheHunter		#1666	[-]
Posts: 1754 (10/26/08 10:45 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Things around Ace fall into later game - the idol, playing off Sugar, Marcus setting him up, etc. Everything from Ace directly is always in the moment. He keeps telling us he's in a great spot, or a bad one. Less foreshadowing directly from him, I think. Yeah, the INV helps eliminate him for me, but also because he's being forced into the limlight when distractions usually come up, and Marcus is tended to quietly in the same spot. I think the whole eliminating of Ace may be a pivotal moment. Seeing the self proclaimed full package simply take it isn't the path that makes sense. But if I'm wrong, hey, no first. Close calls - Marcus, I voted UTR, MOR, bleh, who cares? Matty - I felt the intent was that you have to see him as the good force of the bad Fang, more OTT, but both that and CP may fit well. Michael
Cassidy666		#1667	[-]
Posts: 9059 (10/27/08 12:16 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	panurge46 wrote: To Oo and Cassidy: Why would Corinne need to have the same edit as Natalie at this point? Remember, Natalie lost!! With a little more positive development, Corinne suddenly becoming the bitch would cause a reaction in the audience just like Natalie did. In her case however, the edit would have explained that it was part of her strategy and not out of nowhere like Natalie. Also, consider that Crystal, Susie and Sugar have already been put on the chopping block. If the 3 leave, Corinne suddenly becomes the only woman left. Another connection to an earlier comment. That's how editing works. Whoa. Hey there. I was actually making that same point you were. I don't agree with Oo on this one. Corinne has had a much better edit than Natalie so far and it's the INV that puts people off when it's obvious her careful introduction and her screentime has been well crafted.
7Sages		#1668	[-]
Posts: 138 (10/27/08 1:57 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	INV = death. Doesn't it?
craig		#1669	[-]
Posts: 14198 (10/27/08 2:09 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Crystal's situation in Gabon has parallels with Steph's situation in Palau (females who are demonstrably good athletes (Crystal winning a gold medal, Steph playing Division 1 lacrosse)) - I suspect that their edits through the first 6 episodes could have been much closer had the editors chosen to do so. One thing Michelle, Jacquie, and Kelly have agreed on in interviews, if their lack of respect for Crystal as an athlete. They have find it hard to believe that she was an Olypian. Crystal has played a poor stategic game (picking Susie, letting Randy get the majority pre-switch, listening to Ace's BS and booting Kelly, and acting like GC lite). So Crystal has a bare majority for her deserved N and is deemed CP, while Randy gets 100% N even through his attitude to Fang is the same as Probst, and he is deemed OTT. Looks like Crystal fandon is colouring some people's votes.
ncassaro		#1670	[-]
Posts: 148 (10/27/08 3:00 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Wow. Again, I'm a newb to edgic, but not to Survivor.... I just don't think you can compare Steph's Palau edit and Crystal's Gabon edit. Steph was edited so we would sympathize with her having a dumb tribe.... in Gabon, Crystal has been shown to be a crucial part of Fang being dumb.
ncassaro		#1671	[-]
Posts: 149 (10/27/08 3:03 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	7Sages wrote: INV = death. Doesn't it? I still maintain that Parv was INV after the swap last year most of the time.
guatemala fanfic		#1672	[-]
Posts: 3885 (10/27/08 6:50 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Close Calls Rating Marcus Lehman INV (0%), UTR (41.2%), CP (5.9%), MOR (52.9%), OTT (0%) Matty Whitmore INV (0%), UTR (0%), CP (52.9%), MOR (5.9%), OTT (41.2%) Warrior, Please make note that I am changing my rating for Matty from OTT to CP. Thank you! Most likely, I'll do a more indepth post later on explaining why but I'll be at school most of today so it probably won't be until tomorrow or Wednesday.
dennydoylelives		#1673	[-]
Posts: 2702 (10/27/08 6:51 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: Is the reason people are eliminating Ace strictly because "episode 2" INV? To me, it's partly that, but also, in the pre-swap episodes, I saw him as an OTT villain. Since moving to Fang, he's taken on Randy's role of Burnett tool for pointing out the ineptitude of Fang, so his recent edit has actually been reasonably good. But especially in episode 3, if he had a mustache, he would have been twirling it.
colleenlover		#1674	[-]
Posts: 8613 (10/27/08 7:30 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Crystal's situation in Gabon has parallels with Steph's situation in Palau (females who are demonstrably good athletes (Crystal winning a gold medal, Steph playing Division 1 lacrosse)) - I suspect that their edits through the first 6 episodes could have been much closer had the editors chosen to do so. One thing Michelle, Jacquie, and Kelly have agreed on in interviews, if their lack of respect for Crystal as an athlete. They have find it hard to believe that she was an Olypian. Crystal has played a poor stategic game (picking Susie, letting Randy get the majority pre-switch, listening to Ace's BS and booting Kelly, and acting like GC lite). So Crystal has a bare majority for her deserved N and is deemed CP, while Randy gets 100% N even through his attitude to Fang is the same as Probst, and he is deemed OTT. Looks like Crystal fandon is colouring some people's votes. What do the real life interviews have to do with this? And don't most of us already have Randy as the player to cause the upset, and is most likely in it for the long haul, facing the jury etc?
colleenlover		#1675	[-]
Posts: 8614 (10/27/08 7:32 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ncassaro wrote: 7Sages wrote: INV = death. Doesn't it? I still maintain that Parv was INV after the swap last year most of the time.
9RedWing19		#1676	[-]
Posts: 2265 (10/27/08 7:36 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ncassaro wrote: Wow. Again, I'm a newb to edgic, but not to Survivor.... I just don't think you can compare Steph's Palau edit and Crystal's Gabon edit. Steph was edited so we would sympathize with her having a dumb tribe.... in Gabon, Crystal has been shown to be a crucial part of Fang being dumb. I wasn't saying that the edits are comparable - I'm saying that, had the editors so decided, I believe (through the first 6 episodes) that the edits could have been made much more similar. For example, delete Crystal's confessional about running up the hill feeling like her shoes weighed 10 pounds; I'm sure that there are Crystal confessionals about how the impacts of age and being a mother have impacted her performance - as a parallel, somewhere, I don't remember whether it was a confessional or an interview, Jenn Lyon made a comment about regretting not being able to go 1 vs 1 with Steph at the same age (Jenn at that point being about a decade removed from her days as a runner vs Steph being only a couple of years removed from playing Division 1 lacrosse).
Warrior	CLOSE CALLS	#1677	[-]
Posts: 2702 (10/27/08 7:40 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite
Oowatanite		#1678	[-]
Posts: 6150 (10/27/08 10:36 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cassidy666 wrote: panurge46 wrote: To Oo and Cassidy: Why would Corinne need to have the same edit as Natalie at this point? Remember, Natalie lost!! With a little more positive development, Corinne suddenly becoming the bitch would cause a reaction in the audience just like Natalie did. In her case however, the edit would have explained that it was part of her strategy and not out of nowhere like Natalie. Also, consider that Crystal, Susie and Sugar have already been put on the chopping block. If the 3 leave, Corinne suddenly becomes the only woman left. Another connection to an earlier comment. That's how editing works. Whoa. Hey there. I was actually making that same point you were. I don't agree with Oo on this one. Corinne has had a much better edit than Natalie so far and it's the INV that puts people off when it's obvious her careful introduction and her screentime has been well crafted. Double Whoa. Panurge's original point was that Corinne should still be viable edgically just because of her cheering during the last RC. He then said that it was possible that she could turn into an uberbitch like Natalie and win in front of the jury by owning up to this uberbitchiness. I (and you) disagreed on both counts. IMHO, Corinne's edit is more like Alexis, not Natalie. And Corinne ain't winning with two INVs, including one close call.
Oowatanite		#1679	[-]
Posts: 6151 (10/27/08 10:42 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: So Crystal has a bare majority for her deserved N and is deemed CP, while Randy gets 100% N even through his attitude to Fang is the same as Probst, and he is deemed OTT. Looks like Crystal fandom is colouring some people's votes. C'mon Craig. Randy did NOTHING but mock the Fangs after the RC. OTTN for sure, and I'm glad he got this proper rating, as earlier some of his "fans" were throwing MORs his way. It does not matter that he "agrees" with Probst's view of the Fang tribe. Did Probst start piggin' out on the pastries and shout "wah, wah, wah" at Crystal and Fang ?
Cassidy666		#1680	[-]
Posts: 9062 (10/27/08 10:53 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: Double Whoa. Panurge's original point was that Corinne should still be viable edgically just because of her cheering during the last RC. He then said that it was possible that she could turn into an uberbitch like Natalie and win in front of the jury by owning up to this uberbitchiness. I (and you) disagreed on both counts. IMHO, Corinne's edit is more like Alexis, not Natalie. And Corinne ain't winning with two INVs, including one close call. I did? I simply disagreed that she was getting the same edit as Natalie. She's definitely getting something more than that and there's a depth that's setting her up for the late game. And since I disagree with that first INV she got, there's still a slim chance she might be a viable winner. (Hopefully, since Blandy McBlanderson is kind of... you know.) Example: Parvati disappeared after a switch while all the action happened on the other tribe.

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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