S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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TheLurkerSpeaks		#1701	[-]
Posts: 1355 (10/27/08 9:37 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Craig, Read what I wrote about Marcus again - we're not so far apart after all. I agree that if the final four were Marcus' Onion Alliance, we'd be seeing more of Charlie and Corinne that we currently are, maybe not consistently, but enough to establish them as characters in their own right. However, Marcus still has the edit to win - it just may not be as smooth as it currently appears to be. The Randy - Jonathan comparison is an apt one as well (and just like Randy, Jonathan had his fans who were sure he would win despite his high visibility). However, if Randy turns on the Onions after allying with them, and he and others do take Marcus out, Ken looks like the winner to me.
Riliss		#1702	[-]
Posts: 4606 (10/27/08 10:01 PM) Ugly on the inside Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kirblar wrote: craig wrote: 7 - Randy. I know his fans will rate him higher, but he's been far too much in our face to be in serious winning contention. What about Todd or Tom being the most visible players on their tribe? It not that randy is getting tons of talk time, it's that everything he gets is memorable or significant. Unlike Marcus. In addition- he's receiving time for doing something (actively getting himself positioned above Dan/Susie in the boot order) that would normally never EVER make the actual show 99.99% of the time. He's the most actively edited UTR player I can ever remember. Chris?
getting real		#1703	[-]
Posts: 1300 (10/27/08 10:03 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hmm. Seems like the anti-Fang editing hasn't been entirely convincing for everyone. Here's what an avid Survivor friend had to say: I'm hoping for either original or new Fang as the winner because I don't know if I could bear with an all onion final three. I'm able to root for Ken and Crystal and the rest of Fang, so as long as they stay in the game, I'll at least be able to like them.
Riliss		#1704	[-]
Posts: 4607 (10/27/08 11:00 PM) Ugly on the inside Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Crystal's getting hard to root for but I think it's mostly because I've seen absolutely nothing out of her that I can identify with. And consider comparing Randy's hate with Chris's hate - a lot of what Chris said was over the top insulting, and we (the audience) saw it.
getting real		#1705	[-]
Posts: 1301 (10/28/08 8:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	That, plus reports that it was shown as two regular hour-long shows in Australia and the Philippines, makes me stick with INV for Ace in hour. Where are these reports about Australia coming from? The network with the rights has apparently given up on Survivor and is only now screening Micronesia!
fat little fingers		#1706	[-]
Posts: 5688 (10/28/08 12:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Where are these reports about Australia coming from? You're referring to my comment, gr. The Australian one is probably my bad memory. I think I was combining your earlier post that said the same thing you're saying now, with the one from someone supposedly posting from the Philippines. That post said that the Philippine broadcast was broken into two separate episodes.
Warrior		#1707	[-]
Posts: 2703 (10/28/08 1:38 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You could clearly see that it was 2 episodes shown back to back. The first episode was 1 hour and 5 minutes long because they added the scene that showed the loosing tribe coming back from tribal council. That is the scene that they normally show at the start of the episode. The second episode was only 55 minutes long because that scene was missing.
getting real		#1708	[-]
Posts: 1302 (10/28/08 5:14 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Thanks for the clarification. FLF. It doesn't change the substantive point you're making but it puts my mind at ease because I suddenly started thinking that maybe there's a weird Australian timeslot for Gabon that I wasn't aware about!
ncassaro		#1709	[-]
Posts: 151 (10/29/08 4:45 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I have a question for everyone. I'm re-reading the Guatemala edgic, and it's hilarious. Danni was eliminated by many very early in the season. What changes were made to "fix" edgic after that? I feel like if Marcus does not win this year, edgic will be discredited.
Casey333		#1710	[-]
Posts: 5 (10/29/08 9:10 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well then I guess it's a good thing Marcus is the winner.
Oowatanite		#1711	[-]
Posts: 6160 (10/29/08 10:28 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ncassaro wrote: I have a question for everyone. I'm re-reading the Guatemala edgic, and it's hilarious. Danni was eliminated by many very early in the season. What changes were made to "fix" edgic after that? I feel like if Marcus does not win this year, edgic will be discredited. Nothing. Guatemala was "The Story Of How Palau Heroine Stephenie Lost". Danni was just an afterthought for the editors.
fat little fingers		#1712	[-]
Posts: 5689 (10/29/08 11:44 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Danni was eliminated by many very early in the season... What changes were made to "fix" edgic after that? Like all good politicians, we revised history to fit our agenda: We declared the season an anomaly and dropped it from our statistics. Lol. The official line is: What Oo says- The season was about how and why Stepha-me loses and not about how and why Danni wins. I personally believe that this is the case, though in looking back at that season, Danni's stats are really not that bad. What that tells me is we really did change our thresholds on accepting or eliminating a player. Especially for a female winner edit. Danni's edit may have helped us recognize Parvati's win a little better, though Parvati's confessionals had much better content and her story was better structured. Danni's comments were the weakest of any winner in Survivor history, but her visibility and rating stats were better than the INV/UTR1 players that we quickly discard now. Danni had two UTR1s: at ep6 and 11. We were using INV at that time and she always had enough story to rate at least UTR. She also, in hindsight, has a somewhat classic winner structure in that she got CPP3 at ep7 and CPP4 at ep12. Interestingly, both CPPs were preceded by UTR1 eps. Unclssicly, though, her early episodes did little to establish her endgame. But, I wish I had transcripts of her early confessionals to see if there might be a clue or two that we missed then, but would flag now. I doubt it, we were pretty hip to looking for early end-game clues, but a verbatim script would be really interesting to read. But, anyone wanting to discuss Danni's edit has to place it along side the F-2 loser's edit. Stepha-me's edit ran like so: OTTP5 CP4 OTT4 CP4 OTT4 UTR2 MOR3 MORN3 CP4 CPN4 CPP4 CP4 CPP4 CPP5 It's a distraction story that bulldozed the entire season. I feel like if Marcus does not win this year, edgic will be discredited. I refer to the above answer. Lol. But, seriously, Edgic rarely goes without its detractors. If we get the winner wrong, we are a theoretical bust. If we identify the winner, it is only because half of us are totally spoiled and the other half are sheep. So, we ignore. I personally would come and do this with 1 or 2 others, season after season if it came to that. I have little interest in Edgic's "popularity". What I do like is enthusiasm, wit, and intelligence.
OnlyTheHunter		#1713	[-]
Posts: 1756 (10/29/08 12:23 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FLF is on the right track. Instead of discounting Danni, I simply looked to see the similarities. I have not had time to finish it, but I was watching the opening halves of each first episode. Danni is there. It's not personalized for her (a comment on Bobby Jon), but she appears in a confessional in the first 30 minutes of episode one (before the first break, actually, unlike Tom or Aras), and she got a notable TC question/moment her first trip there, which happened to be that episode (the woman=endurance quote). I said "moment" because I don't know if Earl got a TC question in ep 1 but he had the immediately memorable "poker face" line right before that stood out since it was so unnecessary for that episode. If I take Oo's word, spoilers are no issue this season. (Who could spoil it other than the crew? Who haphazardly ends up walking through "downtown" Gabon on location?) But if Marcus wins, then "it was so obvious that anyone could see it." I'm waiting on that one. I don't care. All I can do is judge the edit, like I enjoy doing. It's still fun for me to do. Danni never got an INV, did have a continuing storyline (the Hogeboom/Hawkins story) that lead her to the merge and beyond, got what was needed in episode one. Steph nearly if not did average a 4 visibility per episode after the merge - no one is necessarily "too" visibile but she was (correct if I'm wrong, Redwing) nearly the single highest visibile player overall, what could have been dismissed as a distraction. I in fact felt that she was very unlikely, but where I couldn't make a case for Rafe or Lydia (the INV among other issues) I simply could not read Danni at all. I simply muffed it. I was not confident about Steph Edgically, but completely didn't buy anyone else. Seeing it in hindsight, well, look at Parvati. We aren't going to miss when she gets split from her alliance partners and her game has to change, even when there aren't 3 minute confessionals about it. We simply got better. And Marcus wins. Just saying. :-) Michael PS - I am happy to see that whatever any one person's preferences, we are not seeing the "Anyone But ___ Syndrome" with Marcus. If it's him, it's him. Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter 10/29/08 12:29 PM. Edited 3 times.
Warrior		#1714	[-]
Posts: 2704 (10/29/08 1:15 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	flf ...Please
Kitty Pryde1		#1715	[-]
Posts: 6028 (10/29/08 1:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OnlyTheHunter wrote: FLF is on the right track. Instead of discounting Danni, I simply looked to see the similarities. I have not had time to finish it, but I was watching the opening halves of each first episode. Danni is there. It's not personalized for her (a comment on Bobby Jon), but she appears in a confessional in the first 30 minutes of episode one (before the first break, actually, unlike Tom or Aras), and she got a notable TC question/moment her first trip there, which happened to be that episode (the woman=endurance quote). I said "moment" because I don't know if Earl got a TC question in ep 1 but he had the immediately memorable "poker face" line right before that stood out since it was so unnecessary for that episode. If I take Oo's word, spoilers are no issue this season. (Who could spoil it other than the crew? Who haphazardly ends up walking through "downtown" Gabon on location?) But if Marcus wins, then "it was so obvious that anyone could see it." I'm waiting on that one. I don't care. All I can do is judge the edit, like I enjoy doing. It's still fun for me to do. Danni never got an INV, did have a continuing storyline (the Hogeboom/Hawkins story) that lead her to the merge and beyond, got what was needed in episode one. Steph nearly if not did average a 4 visibility per episode after the merge - no one is necessarily "too" visibile but she was (correct if I'm wrong, Redwing) nearly the single highest visibile player overall, what could have been dismissed as a distraction. I in fact felt that she was very unlikely, but where I couldn't make a case for Rafe or Lydia (the INV among other issues) I simply could not read Danni at all. I simply muffed it. I was not confident about Steph Edgically, but completely didn't buy anyone else. Seeing it in hindsight, well, look at Parvati. We aren't going to miss when she gets split from her alliance partners and her game has to change, even when there aren't 3 minute confessionals about it. We simply got better. And Marcus wins. Just saying. :-) Michael PS - I am happy to see that whatever any one person's preferences, we are not seeing the "Anyone But ___ Syndrome" with Marcus. If it's him, it's him. It helps that there's absolutely NO ONE left at this point who has a viable edit to win. Ken, Corinne, Charlie, Bob, Susie, Sugar, and Ace have INVs, and even without them, Ken is one of the Fang losers and Ace is an unaware Acehole. Randy had a horrendous episode last. Dan is being editted as a buffoon. Crystal is being given a horrendous edit overall. Matty's the only one even close, and he's got no personalization. There's no one with decent edits like Cirie, Peih-Gee, Amanda (China).
ncassaro		#1716	[-]
Posts: 152 (10/29/08 1:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	So, we ignore. I personally would come and do this with 1 or 2 others, season after season if it came to that. I have little interest in Edgic's "popularity". What I do like is enthusiasm, wit, and intelligence. I was just wondering. I didn't know edgic even existed until like a week ago, and I was like, "wait, did they even predict Danni?" so I went back and checked.
OnlyTheHunter		#1717	[-]
Posts: 1757 (10/29/08 1:54 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ncassaro, you also should go back a few pages in the attic. While only post 1 remains, season 5 Thailand is there. The Amazon thread is dead. But every season afterward is available. The season 1 thread is there, but that was not done as the show aired, obviously. The rest were done real time. I've never see the original Marquesas thread so I assume it's lost, does anyone know for sure? I like re-reading them. It went from the spoiler-assumed spec Edgic (and at one point a non-spoiled thread I guess) to slowly becoming complete anti-spoiler participation. Went from a few handful of people to different generations of participants. Went from 15 pages to over 300 to wait and see today. See the creation of visibility ratings, MOR and INV, strategy ratings, mixed tone, SPV, watchdogs. And it only takes about 2 years to read every single post without a break. Buy now, and get a free copy of the CL Church of Edgic's (TM) handbook, "Historic Speech From Mount KQ", all for one low payment of $154.92. It's fun to see the progression. Although my blathering throughout Panama Exile Island should be removed from the books. Let me go get on that with my editing button... Michael
ncassaro		#1718	[-]
Posts: 153 (10/29/08 2:14 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I will definitely check further into the attic. I would love to read the Marquesas one if it's still there... I doubt anyone thought Vecepia would win based on editing, though she did have a very consistent edit (i.e. talking about God every five seconds.) Which seasons have winners correctly been predicted? I can't imagine Amber was. Or Jenna M.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#1719	[-]
Posts: 1358 (10/29/08 2:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think Edgic threads from before S7 have survived, and from what I remember, I don't even think it was a group effort in S4 (though I believe Kernel Q was refining the concepts that season). As I recall, Kernel Q indicated he did not pick Vee. But he did go with Jenna in S6 (though I don't know if that was a group consensus or just his personal pick - I didn't start participating until S7). As for Amber, she wasn't the consensus pick, but she wasn't ignored as a possibility either. Personally, I had it down to Jenna L. or Amber at the merge and picked wrongly based upon the apparent "underdog" theme that Jenna seemed to represent (and I believe Jenna was the consensus pick). As Jenna's edit worsened post-merge, I was pretty sure Amber was winning, but I think I stuck to my Jenna choice out of principle (and because it could still have been right).
9RedWing19		#1720	[-]
Posts: 2266 (10/29/08 3:27 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OnlyTheHunter wrote: Danni never got an INV, did have a continuing storyline (the Hogeboom/Hawkins story) that lead her to the merge and beyond, got what was needed in episode one. Steph nearly if not did average a 4 visibility per episode after the merge - no one is necessarily "too" visibile but she was (correct if I'm wrong, Redwing) nearly the single highest visibile player overall, what could have been dismissed as a distraction. I in fact felt that she was very unlikely, but where I couldn't make a case for Rafe or Lydia (the INV among other issues) I simply could not read Danni at all. I did this really quickly by looking at the charts on page 1, but it looks like Steph's average visibility per episode (3.9) in Guat is higher than that of any winner (Rich looks to be the highest winner at 3.7). On the other hand, Danni's average visibility of 2.3 is the lowest of any winner (including Vee). Instinctively many people may have felt that too much visibility was better than too little visibility; in the case of Guat this turned out not to be true.

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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