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Here is a nice blog article about the Seattle Freeze from a parent of a child.. I really enjoy the hostile passive agressive response only validating the author's point.. you call anyone here on the coldness of Seattle people and like my good friend the suburban hausfrauen SUV driving fleece/croc wearing Seattle clone immediately they say there is something wrong with "YOU" I always love that one... and I am a native calling people out on this shit.. Truth hurts..

The "Seattle Freeze" at the playground

Lately my husband and I are realizing that having one child is hard. I'm sure that having two or more children has its own unique issues. But here's the thing about having just one: YOU (the parents) are the playmates. All day, every day, we are bombarded with demands to play:

"Mom, you be Zurg and I'll be Buzz."
"Dad, you pretend to be a tiger and chase me."
"Mom, I'll hide in my bed and you try to find me."

To be honest, it's exhausting. There's a reason why kids play so well together... they have the same interests, inclinations, and (let's face it) energy level. I just plain don't. And no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to get CJ to want to drink coffee and read the newspaper with me. So we decided that our darling son needs some playmates, and fast.

So... now what? Our circle of friends is decidedly lacking in the 3-4 year old area. And this leads me to my topic of the day.

Despite preschool, despite daily visits to the playground, zoo, and other child-friendly destinations, despite ex-coworkers and neighbors who have children, I find myself wondering,

How does a person make new friends in this city?

It brings to mind this article in Pacific Northwest magazine about "The Seattle Freeze."

the dichotomy most fundamental to our collective civic character is this: Polite but distant. Have a nice day. Somewhere else...

Seattle is like that popular girl in high school. The one who gets your vote for homecoming queen because she always smiles and says hello. But she doesn't know your name and doesn't care to. She doesn't want to be your friend. She's just being nice.

More recently, I saw the Seattle Freeze debated again on Yelp. Seems that it's alive and well.

I've been in Seattle for 10 years, longer than I've lived anywhere else. I consider it home, but really I'm a transplant. My husband was born & raised right here, so he's what you'd call a native.

This is our experience.

* Seattleites are fairly friendly on the surface (although it's not uncommon to be avoided altogether by a parent whose child yours has bonded with at the playground. Must. Not. Make. Eye. Contact.)
* You can sometimes make a friend where you least expect to.
* But be wary (very wary) of actually TRYING to make friends here. This makes you appear desperate, needy, and is the equivalent of wearing a sign that reads "I AM A LOSER; AVOID ME AT ALL COSTS"

Even 3 year olds encounter "the freeze."
Just yesterday, at the Zoomazium, CJ went up to a little boy and tapped him on the shoulder. "Do you want to play with me?" The little boy looked up at the ceiling and calmly ignored CJ until his mom came to 'rescue' him from the affront of a strange little boy trying to be his friend.

As she studiously ignored my son, I could imagine her thinking, "What's wrong with that boy? Why does he want to play with my child? Doesn't he know that kids should keep to themselves at play areas?"

It's gotten to the point where every time CJ goes out to try and make a friend I find myself cringing, wanting to pull him back, afraid of the possible rejection. But for every few failed attempts there's the friendly one, the one that DOES want to play... and so we keep trying.

For the sake of openness and transparency, I will admit that I at times am prone to these same snobbish behaviors. I like to think that most of the time I'm a pretty friendly person, willing to talk to just about anyone. BUT if a person acts too friendly, too needy, I feel myself withdraw. Why are they so friendly? Do they want something from me? Is there something wrong with them? I know, I know, it's not cool to act this way. But admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery, right? I do solemnly swear to be more friendly (truly friendly, not just surface friendly), to be more open-minded, and not to freeze out the poor people who are just trying to make a friend.

Then again, is it really just Seattle? ,
Can we honestly blame the Freeze on the good people of Seattle (and this I know- they ARE good people). Is it all the rain that gets us a bit muddled in our social ways? Or is the Freeze more of a general tendency of today's society towards exclusion and solitude, as inferred by this article on LiveScience.com?

What's your experience?
Have you encountered the "Seattle Freeze"? Is it unique to Seattle? And how does a person go about finding new friends (with children of similar ages to yours) in this town?

***


Posted by unregistered user at 2/28/07 8:20 a.m.

I am eagerly awaiting any responses you get to this entry. I've definitely encountered the "Seattle Freeze" and it does seem to be unique to Seattle. In most other cities I've visited or lived in, people seem to much more warmly responsive to friendly gestures. Sad to find out the "Freeze" is so pervasive that even 3-year olds are succumbing.

Posted by mavery at 2/28/07 8:34 a.m.

If you were more developed as a person you would have specific interests that you would pursue and in the course of pursuing those interests you would meet like minded people. Those would be called POTENTIAL FRIENDS. I moved out here from Chicago more than twenty years ago and have never experinced 'The Freeze' because I consistently find things I am interested in and DO THEM. REGARDLESS OF WHO ELSE PARTICIPATES. And if you can't do that you will never be a very good parent. Losers. All of you.

The unGrim Reaper of what I've sown

Posted by unregistered user at 2/28/07 8:59 a.m.

Marvey - I would NOT want to be your friend even if I was in the "group" or "activity" or whatever you are referring to. You seem weird.

But to respond to this article, I completely agree with the "Seattle Freeze". It is sad, but seems to be just a charactiristic of this city.
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#25404

Posted by unregistered user at 2/28/07 9:03 a.m.

Wow. What a rude reply, 'mavery'. Twenty years in Seattle have certainly robbed you of even a modicum of civility or courtesy. If I were to become 'more developed as a person' (as you so eloquently imply that you already are), I fervently hope that I wouldn't come off as hateful and waspish as you seem. And, really, lose the high-school lexicon...the only word you can draw up to end your diatribe is 'loser'?! You're clearly not involved in any literary pursuits.

Posted by Sean98125 at 2/28/07 10:12 a.m.

LOL - mavery just proved Jenny's point.

I've seen the freeze, but never really understood how prevalent it was until I took my daughter to the playground at a playground outside the city. We were the only ones there with another family, and it turned out that the other family was from out of the area. Their two kids were in a tire swing,and as soon as my daughter showed up they asked if she wanted to join them. She had a great time playing with them. That just doesn't happen with Seattle families.

I see the freeze at my daughter's daycare, too. It's like trying to pull teeth to talk to the other parents sometimes.

Posted by unregistered user at 2/28/07 10:45 a.m.

Just came over from Yelp, and damn! I cannot agree with you more about the parental freeze. I am a single mother and can I just add that being a single parent in itself really freaks people out to the point that they will not look at you or speak to you ("you" actually being me).

With the rabid Seattle Freeze discussion on Yelp I found myself not fully idenitifying with everyone's issues, though I did reply to that thread a very long time ago. However when I read about your experiences on playgrounds and at child cares, you are so right and I am so relived! Thank you. :o)

My daughter is 7 now and in the 1st grade, but she still goes to before- and after-school child care and I hate it. I honestly detest the times I have to go into the child care and be ignored by other parents. I feel like a kid who doesn't want to go Aunt June's, ya know? And eventually I become angry at the hostile treatment and I understand why people go on shooting rampages, no seriously I do. But then I have to remember that I am the adult and in being the adult I can be friendly (though no one cares) and I can be engaging (though no notices but the child). Being the better person (who doesn't go on shooting rampages) is hard and we deserve mad props for maintaining. :o)

- Jaz
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Posted by unregistered user at 2/28/07 5:35 p.m.

Mavery = idiot.

I have a 9 month old and have thus far failed to make mom friends. I don't know if it is Seattle or what, but it's kind of a bummer.


Posted by elizabeth3536 at 2/28/07 9:43 p.m.

I have a two year old and have a few friends left over from earlier days in my life that now are at the same spot that I am, married, kids, etc. That said, I have noticed that the Moms at toddler playground are friendly but not overtly so and I have met only one Mom who I would call a friend that we have exchanged info and she and her kids came to our recent two year birthday party. However, I have had some luck with a Mom's Group that I found at Meetup.com. I happen to live in Renton so that is the Meetup group that I belong to but there are a ton of other ones and it might be a place to start, like minded Mom's who enjoy playdates and such. Good luck


The biggest freezes I notice are at the grocery store when I say "excuse me" to reach or walk past someone and they either glare at me, duck their head and scurry away, or mumble "sorry" and then duck their head and scurry away. Where I come from (Oklahoma) when someone asks you to excuse them, you politely, with a smile, do so.

I am also the mother of a young child and have noticed some of this at playgrounds, etc. I may even be guilty of it. I like to blame my lack of willingness to make new friends on feeling so overwhelmed by work, parenthood, and the general pace of life in an incredibly expensive city that I barely have a chance to visit with my old friends and definitely don't have time for new ones. So if I get friendly with a mom at the playground or at music class, I start to feel like we should have coffee, then playdates and family dinners...in other words, one more thing to do! Does anyone else feel that way?

Posted by Wendy Wallace at 3/1/07 12:54 p.m.

Great blog! Welcome! I have lived several places and the smaller towns were definitely "friendlier" with new coworkers inviting you over for dinner, etc. I agree with another reader who said part of the "freeze" is being busy already, commuting, working, taking care of kids, and not having time to see the friends they've known a long time. Before I had my daughter, I had just moved here, was working from home and knew NO ONE. I hoped to make some friends from the dog parks (really!), and I had the same freezing experience. And also with a neighbor who when she wanted to see a particular movie and I expressed interest, too, she said she was already planning on "going with a group of her girlfriends." I'm a girl! I find it easier now to make friends since I had a kid (just one, also), the playgroups, classes, especially the co-op type school where parents are really involved. It is a slow process. Anywhere.

I was just thinking about this issue.
My son-the outgoing friendly child who is constantly hurt by the snubs of adults ans children in Seattleland. I see him retracting socially. There have been times when my son will talk and ask questions to these "adults" Hi what is your name...Do you like your book you are reading? They will look at him with disgust and plain wonderment as if an alien asked them a quesiton and they don't reply..averting eye contqact at all costs!!!!

The kids are ill mannered and rude and their wimpy parents do nothing to correct their ill-mannered children because they have none themselves.

I was in Costco with my mom who is almost 70. I watched as this guy trying to get by her, stood there.... stood there... I was about to holler over to her to move then this bozo decided to go ahead and plow through and bumping into my mom. My mother who instillled in me good manners actually apologized for being in the way!!!! If he had just said excuse me she would have move graciously. I have noticed time and time again the rudeness exhibited at stores or public events. People will stand there wanting to get through without verbalizing anything and when you finally do notice they give you this scowl and scurry past???? It has come to society either being too afraid to talk or plain selfish "me" attitude that they don't take 1 second to say a kind word or excuse me. Seattle is frozen! It makes me frequently want to move back to Alaska...

OK I really won't move because I do love this city but it is a love/hate...

Posted by unregistered user at 4/6/07 11:00 p.m.

Oh, it is real.
In Chicago we knew our neighbors in all three places we lived. We knew their kids and their dogs and partied with them and argued with them and even went on trips with them. But Chicago is a great city...

People here can claim that they are polite. But cold smiles don't make you polite.

And the fear of any conversations! Everyone here is scared to talk.

We've been here less than a year and yet sadly we are already spending weekends looking online for houses for sale back in Chicago. I am sure that the natives are saying "Good, go away." But why be that way? Come live in Chicago and see what it is like to be friends with your neighbors and coworkers and even the people at the dog walk park. Social skills in Seattle are really nothing to be proud of, and you can have all of the mountains and orcas in the world but if you can't get along with other people... well, anyway. The Seattle Freeze is all too real, I'm afraid.

Dennis
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Posted by unregistered user at 5/2/07 3:56 p.m.

I don't like Mavery's condescending tone, either, but the has somewhat of a point.

People here seem to be drawn more by external common interests than the need to socialize for its own sake. I don't, however, equate holding common interests necessarily with making real friends. It's a superficial form of socializing (so what, say you like kayaking: yep, there's you and your kayak, not talking much to the 50 other kayakers in the river with you also not talking much to each other).

I think a big part of the whole Seattle freeze phenomen, beyond making friends, is some of the local personality idiosyncracies that people from elsewhere find annoying (slight snootiness, defensiveness, passive aggressiveness, nosiness). Then, when they can't seem to make any friends among these people, it makes them feel even worse.

Locals tend to blame "the freeze" on transplants (Seattle people, who love citing statistics will remind us outsiders that we outnumber them), but it's unlikely that people moving in from other cities, where this isn't so much a topic, all happen to share these personality traits.

It could be, however, that the transplants, getting a chilly reception here, yet not inclined to move, have just acculturated and now blend in (or maybe the opposite: they're reluctant to try to make friends here because they're not planning to stick around).
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Posted by unregistered user at 5/6/07 3:18 p.m.

Seen the same at playgrounds. Found that play groups are easier places to take the kids to interact with more sociable parents (which means more sociable kids). Only thing about that is that play groups cost money (which we don't mind spending, but others might).

Most of our friends, though, are other foreigners -- not from the U.S., we're Canadians; we haven't even tried much to get to know the locals, because they're boring our opinion (I'm not interested in talking about coffee, apples, or city statistics), and have different sets of parental values (think laissez faire parenting, bordering on outright disinterest in what their kids are doing).
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Posted by unregistered user at 2/6/08 8:32 a.m.

I grew up in a small town in Tennessee and graduated college not long ago. I was in orange county, CA for about 4 months and felt like I built very strong relationships with a number of people there. My experience there was so enchoraging that I felt like I could move anywhere any make good friends. Think again. I have been in Seattle for 7 months, while I love my job, I feel like I don't know anybody except my girlfriend, who with her family moved here from Cali. She and her family agree with me when I say that the people here are nice, but hard to get close to.
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Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 11:11 p.m.

Great blog post and this just reminds me why I moved my family away from Seattle after 10 years. For that mom to ignore a friendly little boy is HORRENDOUS. And people like mavery suggesting that it is abnormal to desire normal human interaction and friendships (as compared with the famous Seattle self-absorbed solitary pursuits) reinforces just how truly weird so many Seattleites are. I will not miss the "deer in the headlights...why are you talking to me?" social awkwardness of all the Seattle sociophobes.
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