Damn the Boot Lists - Back to Traditional Spoiling in Survivor Spoilers Forum

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Damn the Boot Lists - Back to Traditional Spoiling

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Trixiego	Re: Sleek	#81	[-]
Posts: 24078 02/18/04 08:46 PM Kiss me, I'm Adminish Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thank you Q. A. Tina was a prior winner who was already considered a hot seat item (like every past winner) B. Looking at the challenge caps helped a lot of us to reasonably believe Saboga wouldn't do well C. FEC brought to light a missing Tina videocap What's the problem?
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Jaborwok	Re: Sleek	#82	[-]
Posts: 1644 02/18/04 08:47 PM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Virtual...I disagree to what the quote you posted along with your aggreance to it suggest...if you take a look at the edgic thread started by KernelIQ for this season and past seasons you will see that those who post in that thread have been able to "spoil" the boots and ultimately the winners thru editing and logic alone...a very worthy feat.. And to my taste...that's what true spoiling is...it is more enjoyable and satisfying to work out the end rather than having it handed to you on a plate...but this is just my opinion.
ChillOne	Spoiling	#83	[-]
Posts: 629 02/18/04 09:14 PM Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Jaborwok: *Quote:* And to my taste...that's what true spoiling is...it is more enjoyable and satisfying to work out the end rather than having it handed to you on a plate...but this is just my opinion. Your opinion is well received ... although, I disagree. Personally, I see two types of spoiling: For now, I'll just call them Grassroots Spoiling (or Traditional Spoiling) and Insider Spoiling. Grassroots Spoiling is determining the outcome based on many different drivers; vidcaps, interviews, source spoiling, etc. This type of spoiling is done without the assistance of "someone on the inside". Grassroot spoilers have no connection to the show and attempt to do their best at determining the outcome using whatever methods available. Now, Insider Spoiling is just as it sounds ... spoiling with the help of someone connected to the show. It's still spoiling and certainly deserves credit, but should be placed in a different "bucket". Jaborwok, I too find it enjoyable and satisfying to find out that my time and efforts have yielded an accurate spoiler. People may think that my "boots" were handed to me on a plate, but, it took a bit of negotiating work (not to mention the initial task of identifying and befriending these contacts). Who knows what my sources in Brazil and Panama were willing to tell me before we met. IMHO, successful Grassroot Spoilers are the "true" spoilers as it is much more of a challenge to be accurate. Of course, all of this IMHO. - The ChillOne
Isgal1	Re: Spoiling	#84	[-]
Posts: 2491 02/18/04 10:15 PM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts
DarkRivers	Re: Spoiling	#85	[-]
Posts: 84 02/18/04 10:19 PM Expect The Unexpected Reply Quote More Recent Posts	So nobody is happy unless they themselves are the one who gets the spoiler, through their own "hard work" of sitting on their ass in front of a computer screen. What egos. Instead of bitching about other people getting good spoilers, go out and get your own. What I do is similar to what ChillOne does, and Wezzie and QE and Colleenlover and anyone else who does what they do away from their cozy chair. Schmooze it out of someone who knows, or "social engineer" so hard that someone will happily get information for you without anybody knowing where it ends up. Granted, the Traveling Spoilburys spend considerably more time and money than I do on this, but at least they get to go to neat places. And luckily, as far as I know, my mug shot hasn't been circulated among TifferT's buddies or the Marquesan locals. But why is this type of information gathering any less noble than watching a survivor slip up on TV and say who her friends are? Isn't that having it "handed to you on a plate" or "spoonfed?" Anything goes in this game, and the more investigative the spoiling is, the better in my book. (No, I'm not writing a book). And any bootlist you see from someone purporting to be in "the industry" will always be bogus.
VirtualOracle	Re: Spoiling	#86	[-]
Posts: 39 02/18/04 10:45 PM Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	If scrutinizing the digital landscape and finding "signs" there makes people happy, I certainly don't want to spoil their happiness. Peace.
Coachocd	Re: Spoiling	#87	[-]
Posts: 8803 02/18/04 10:56 PM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Dark Rivers, My intention in starting this thread was not to offend anyone. It was merely to offer encouragement to those others around here who do not want to waste our time with "industry" hoaxers like sleek28, and want refocus our energies elsewhere. I certain differentiate between what Wezzie, QE and Colleenlover and other similar people do and hoaxes like Uncle Cameraman and sleek28. Patagonia is a legitimate and much appreciated spoiler. Wezzie and QE are known to us. I am incredibly grateful to their contributions I also agree that any spoiler that comes from someone purporting inside the industry is bogus. My intention was to rally those of us who don't want to lose the traditional or, as Chill One insightfully described it, "grassroots" spoiling. I think investigative spoiling is great. However, no boot list is 100% accurate and should not take the place of the other methods. Someone in this thread used the phrase about liking a "well-rounded" board. A board filled with grassroots and investigative spoiling is a lot of fun. Debating boot lists given by someone "in the industry" is pointless, from Uncle Cameraman to sleek28. I don't want a war between anyone. This is a team effort. MB would like nothing better than for us to fight amongst ourselves. And, yes I think he does care. This is his biggest project. He wouldn't have inserted the "fake final four" pic in the S1 introduction if he didn't.
Bluto Delta	Re: Spoiling	#88	[-]
Posts: 2432 02/18/04 11:22 PM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I like the idea of old-school spoiling. But I can't even drink beer and take a leak at the same time.
KMartin67	Re: Spoiling	#89	[-]
Posts: 462 02/18/04 11:30 PM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	the only thing I'm unhappy about is the insinuation that since I dared to post in a thread that turned out to be a hoax, I am somehow too stupid to understand what "real" spoilers are. I enjoy reading Chill type information spoilers, SEC screw-ups like pictures with obvious clues, and the intensive work that goes into analyzing patterns. I want it all, dammit. And I'd like to think I have the right to comment on anything I have questions or insight on. Am I sucker for halfway believing something I shouldn't have ? You bet I am. And I'll do it again if I want to.
Snewser	Re: Spoiling	#90	[-]
Posts: 939 02/18/04 11:42 PM Deep Thinker Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Mark has way too much on his plate to care. Apprentice, The Restaurant, drama pilots, The Casino, Survivor, plus his new one about I guess a great white boxing hope. S1 was interesting, but they did things differently then. The actual merge TC was inserted into E1, and various footage from later episodes was mixed and mashed. Add to that, all of the players attended the final TC and actually knew who won, and you could often see the wheels turning when they were doing interviews and trying not to give things away. We don't have that fun anymore. As a result, interviews are mostly boring, and interviewers have to fear the wrath of those with sticks up their butts for even the most benign of spoilerish questions. The kinds of questions people tune in to listen to because they're interested. Given the widely available information that we have to work with now, most clues are either really obvious or completely useless. It's almost a crapshoot. Like trying to guess if Alice will finally marry Sam the Butcher on Brady Bunch. Do you call that fun? So getting info other ways is either fairly easy or very hard. Hard in any case in getting to the point where it's easy. The hard stuff you don't always hear stories about and never will. How did Sleek stumble across partially accurate information? The truth will likely remain hidden.
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Jaborwok	Re: Spoiling	#91	[-]
Posts: 1644 02/18/04 11:47 PM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Chill...after reading your post, I realize that I perhaps sounded a little pompous and self important, which was not my intention...I agree with what you stated. I also agree that not everyone enjoys "spoiling" the way that I do...I'm not saying that my way is best...it's just my way.. I appreciate what you Wezzie, Quartzeye and others do by going places the rest of us can't...and the way you get spoilers is the very best way...in person and on site... It's the posted "boot lists" that I find unsatisfying, and usually they are not correct...altho I don't mind reading and discussing everyones opinion concerning each list.. We all come to these boards for our own reasons and our own enjoyment...each of us has the right to post and read in whichever thread catches our attention...and I don't want anyone to think that I am putting them down for doing so... I am just saying that, to use your phrase, I enjoy the grassroots method of spoiling...but if I could go places where finding spoilers was possible, then I would do so...but I can't, so I'll just have to use what few grey-cells I have left and do what I can to participate in spoiling.... I hope that I haven't offended anyone with my viewpoints...and if so it was not my intention...
Coachocd	Going forward.	#92	[-]
Posts: 8803 02/18/04 11:57 PM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	For those of us who wish to see more "grassroots" spoiling on the main board -- in no way meant to discourage wonderful investigative spoiling by Wezzie, Quartzeye, Colleenlover, ChillOne and others who go above and beyond the call of spoiling duty -- what about the following ideas? We could have the following five regular threads for each episode: (1) Ep.# - Episode Title & Website Clues (2) Ep.# - Reward Challenge (3) Ep.# - Immunity Challenge (4) After the episode, thread for bootee Interviews/Webchat. (5) Survivor Insider transcription I don't want to step on MESS' toes. They do wonderful work. Do others think that having these five regular categories -- in addition to any other threads posted on this free thinking board will help us on this board? This idea is meant to encourage all spoiling and not meant to discourage anyone's contribution. I am happy to begin these threads if there is support from the board.
Jaborwok	Re: Going forward.	#93	[-]
Posts: 1644 02/19/04 12:01 AM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Yes Coach...sign me up, I'll participate, and thanks, it sounds like a fun thing to try...
KMartin67	Re: Going forward.	#94	[-]
Posts: 462 02/19/04 12:06 AM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Coach - I really like that idea. But where is the line between what gets discussed in MESS or Speculation and what goes here ?
Coachocd	Re: Going forward.	#95	[-]
Posts: 8803 02/19/04 12:11 AM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	MESS is tightly moderated -- which is great. Speculation isn't interested in spoilers. I think the main difference between this board's threads and the wonderful MESS threads is that discussion will probably be a little more freewheeling, as I am sure posters will include some of the "inside" and investigative information from other threads. The main purpose of these threads would be to add focus, and not to take the place of MESS or the Speculation Board. Vidcaps of the RC could go in the RC. Vidcaps of the IC could go in the IC. One possibility is to combine the RC/IC thread as it is not always known initially which challenge is which. Actually, that isn't a bad idea. Also, unlike MESS or the Collectiiive, there will be additional threads other than the regular ones.
Utopian	in response	#96	[-]
Posts: 7372 02/19/04 12:26 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	*Quote:* of course Mark Burnett puts in little clues and stuff. Or just as likely, folk are kidding themselves. Ole MB takes credit where none is due. He wants folk to think hes that witty. Delusions of grandeur lead to the wholly unsupported conclusion that there are obtuse clues that only the most clever are able to discern. Most of these so-called revelations are reversed-engineered. One looks at the results, and then imagines the foreshadowing. It is an assemblage of random and unassociated visuals to fit subsequently demonstrated facts. As for those who manage to predict correctly, who can say its anything more than a lucky guess. Turn it around and the question becomes whether anyone is seriously suggesting that the winner of Survivor can be predicted based on a mathematical analysis. Its the degree of gullibility that should amaze and cause folk to pause. Folk see what they want to see and either invent, or disregard, the rest. Look hard and long enough, and you too will say, yeah, the pattern of that stain on the wall looks just like the face of [fill in the blank]. Truth be known, however, the emperor is not wearing any clothes. What becomes clear is that the notion that clues are hidden among the palm fronds is a matter of faith. It is a belief not based on proof but on wishful thinking. And thinking isnt the same as knowing.
Cuauhtemoc Cosby	Re: Damn the Boot Lists - Back to Traditional Spoiling	#97	[-]
Posts: 20411 02/19/04 12:33 AM Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	First, bravo Utopian. Excellent post. Second, no, Coacoched, this isn't MESS, and I disagree those threads should be here. If people want to talk about thos subjects, I'm sure they'll be able to survive toning it down a little for MESS. That's the reason MESS is there. Third, back to Utopian, though obviously the point of spec is we don't know and are trying to figure it out, I agree, it's so easy to say in hindsight "oh,what I predicted back in episode 3 came true!" when your other 500 predictions were wrong. I wish more people would be a bit more like Isgal, in that they see the clues, make a speculation prediciton, and stick with it. People like TapeWatcher and Isgal are people I love giving credit for (and KernalQ of Edgic and the other Edgic posters) because they make a detailed analysis, and stick with it. Many other people, outside of those trying to figure out the immidiate challenge winners/weekly boot, just provide regular speculation that doesn't lead much anywhere
Coachocd	Re: Damn the Boot Lists - Back to Traditional Spoiling	#98	[-]
Posts: 8803 02/19/04 12:40 AM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	So far, that's 2 for and 1 against. We could also try it for one episode and see how it works. (1) - Ep.# Title/Website Clues/Previews (2) - Ep.# Reward & Immunity Challenges (3) - Bootee Interviews and webchats (4) - Ep.# Survivor Insider Transcripts. I will go with the majority on this.
Cuauhtemoc Cosby	Re: Damn the Boot Lists - Back to Traditional Spoiling	#99	[-]
Posts: 20411 02/19/04 12:42 AM Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	... Coacoched, do you not know of the MESS Hall? It's just two clicks away, I promise!
VolcanicGlass	Re: Spoiling	#100	[-]
Posts: 1721 02/19/04 12:48 AM Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	By any means necessary. That is all.
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Damn the Boot Lists - Back to Traditional Spoiling