Congratulations, Bob Crowley - Winner of Survivor: Gabon! - Survivor Spoilers - Spoiler Related - Survivor Sucks - Message Board

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Congratulations, Bob Crowley - Winner of Survivor: Gabon!

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Casey333		#41	[-]
Posts: 664 (12/20/08 2:41 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	He played an Amber game, with Sugar as his Boston Rob. It may not be an exciting strategy, but it worked for him.
Kirblar		#42	[-]
Posts: 7222 (12/20/08 2:47 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Casey333 wrote: He played an Amber game, with Sugar as his Boston Rob. It may not be an exciting strategy, but it worked for him. He didn't play a game at all. He was content to let others win and never tried to advance himself in the game beyond immunity. My issue is that trying to attribute any sort of "strategy" to what he did to win aside from the F8 fake idol is a joke.
craig		#43	[-]
Posts: 14604 (12/20/08 9:49 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Bob excelled at many aspects of the game - winning challenges, being a consummate survivalist around camp, and playing a solid social game with a bunch of people not his generation. He deserves A in all 3 categories He never messed up strategically. He got into outer layers of the Onion, Kota won challenges, they stayed away from TC (which puts strategy on the backburner). Wasn't his fault the Onion lost power. He went along with Sugar at F8, tried to fool Kenny with the idol at F7, etc. He didn't have power to do much else being in the minority. Flipping on the Onion because he was 4th or 5th would have guarenteed he'd lose. Traitors never win. And Fang was either too stupid or too trusting of Sugar to really work with Kota, so immunity was his only path to victory. Vee, Jenna, Chris, and Danni all needed it at times too. Sugar didn't hand him the million. She's was a cop-out, she refused to choose, and Bob's firemaking skills prevailed. I prefer more strategic players to win. But nice to change it up once in awhile, especially at Fang's expense. Last Edited By: craig 12/20/08 10:00 PM. Edited 1 times.
sublimeoqwee		#44	[-]
Posts: 77 (12/20/08 10:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ok you're giving him way too much credit lol
urrout		#45	[-]
Posts: 1839 (12/20/08 10:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Bob excelled at many aspects of the game - winning challenges, being a consummate survivalist around camp, and playing a solid social game with a bunch of people not his generation. He deserves A in all 3 categories He never messed up strategically. He got into outer layers of the Onion, Kota won challenges, they stayed away from TC (which puts strategy on the backburner). Wasn't his fault the Onion lost power. He went along with Sugar at F8, tried to fool Kenny with the idol at F7, etc. He didn't have power to do much else being in the minority. Flipping on the Onion because he was 4th or 5th would have guarenteed he'd lose. Traitors never win. And Fang was either too stupid or too trusting of Sugar to really work with Kota, so immunity was his only path to victory. Vee, Jenna, Chris, and Danni all needed it at times too. Sugar didn't hand him the million. She's was a cop-out, she refused to choose, and Bob's firemaking skills prevailed. I prefer more strategic players to win. But nice to change it up once in awhile, especially at Fang's expense. The Onions losing power actually helped Bob the way the game played out. Randy was gone with or without Bob. His part in Randy's boot almost cost him the game. Fooling Kenny at F7 was his only good move of the game and he apparently was not aware of Corrine's moves. If he had lost the next immunity, Sugar had no power and he would have been gone unless she decided to give him the idol but then he would have still need Sugar to not play to win herself to get to the F3. The onions were only 3 votes, he was not guaranteed to lose if he had flipped but there was no one to flip to anyway because nobody wanted him in the F3 with them. He had no back up plan except immunity. Sugar told him about the tie plan which gave Bob an unfair advantage over Matty although he probably would have won it anyway. If you need immunity to get to the F3, you messed up strategically unless you take 3 players to the F4 that you think you can easily beat or you bring an even bigger target with you that likely won't win immunity. Bob did none of this because he couldn't. Sugar did hand him the million with out a doubt. Her confessionals said it all. His FTC words admitted it. Bob deserves credit for getting far in the game with his immunity wins but he does not deserve credit for getting to the F3 and winning, imo. Did Bob try to secure Sugar's vote at merge? He would have been at least # 4 in C/C/R/B/S alliance with unlikable people and still a challenge threat among them. And he may not have had to flip on anybody to get to the F3.
MultiGeminii		#46	[-]
Posts: 1335 (12/20/08 11:31 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kirblar wrote: Casey333 wrote: He played an Amber game, with Sugar as his Boston Rob. It may not be an exciting strategy, but it worked for him. He didn't play a game at all. He was content to let others win and never tried to advance himself in the game beyond immunity. My issue is that trying to attribute any sort of "strategy" to what he did to win aside from the F8 fake idol is a joke. Thank you, Kirblar. Spot-on as usual. The man did nothing. He didn't even do enough to be compared to AMBER for chrissakes. His win was 100% determined by Sugar. She chose who she wanted to lose to; Bob didn't choose to ride her coat.
SwineForkbeard		#47	[-]
Posts: 2024 (12/21/08 12:18 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sugar saved him when everybody else wanted to boot him at F8 by coming up with the idea to give Randy the fake idol, she probably saved him when Kenny planned to Reichenbach him at F6, and she saved him by forcing the tie at F4. If Randy was telling the truth when he said he voted for Bob because Susie wouldn't stop talking about cookiegate, Bob is indebted to Sugar there too, because she was the instigator of that. It's like Sugar forced him to win in spite of himself. Bob did nothing to manipulate her or convince her he wouldn't win against her or do anything to make those things happen other than be a father figure. The tie was entirely Sugar's idea, and he had sulked and bitched at Susie instead of figuring out a way to advance. He didn't even understand it himself, saying things like "I don't know whether to trust her, and have no idea why she would want to do these things for me." I have no problem with Bob winning, but let's not rewrite history. Nobody has ever won after uttering the words "I rode coattails" until now.
craig		#48	[-]
Posts: 14608 (12/21/08 1:22 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sugar saved him when everybody else wanted to boot him at F8 by coming up with the idea to give Randy the fake idol, she probably saved him when Kenny planned to Reichenbach him at F6, and she saved him by forcing the tie at F4. If Randy was telling the truth when he said he voted for Bob because Susie wouldn't stop talking about cookiegate, Bob is indebted to Sugar there too, because she was the instigator of that. It's like Sugar forced him to win in spite of himself F8 - Crystal wanted to boot Randy. Giving Randy the idol only makes sense if there is a presumption Randy is the target. You could say Bob's good social game helped keep him around despite his challenge prowess. F6 - I really think Bob is too old and wily to do a Reichenbach. He was always suspicious of why Ken needed the idol. Bob also said he would have pocketed the merge idol and faked throwing it away if he was Marcus. F4 - Aras and Tom forced a tie for Cirie and Jenn, but it did no good without winning the tiebreaker. Cookiegate - I really think Corinne pleaded Bob's case to Randy in jury house and put Kota peer pressure on him, which helped Bob get that deciding vote (whether or not her efforts were decisive). Certainly she told Randy enough to verify Bob's side of the story. Last Edited By: craig 12/21/08 1:33 AM. Edited 2 times.
SwineForkbeard		#49	[-]
Posts: 2025 (12/21/08 2:11 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Giving Randy the idol only makes sense if there is a presumption Randy is the target. You could say Bob's good social game helped keep him around despite his challenge prowess. Not if Randy's still around to take the target off him by driving everybody nuts. Anybody's social game would look good in comparison. In every situation after that, Bob's social game was irrelevant apart from how it affected Sugar. Ordinarily, a strong social game would have hurt him since it was so obvious that his old tribemates would vote for him. It required the inclusion of a player like Sugar who wasn't playing with her own expediency in mind, and turned the conventional game logic on its head. F4 - Aras and Tom forced a tie for Cirie and Jenn, but it did no good without winning the tiebreaker. Aras and Tom didn't keep it a secret that they were doing it and enable one to practice at the expense of the other. Besides, forcing the tie was a contingency plan because Susie won immunity. If Bob hadn't been so inept in that immunity challenge, a tie would have been unnecessary. Bob deserves credit for winning the tiebreaker, I suppose, but all it is is winning a challenge against one opponent. He deserves none of the credit for getting that chance in the first place unless being a fatherly figure can be considered a game move. Cookiegate - I really think Corinne pleaded Bob's case to Randy in jury house and put Kota peer pressure on him, which helped Bob get that deciding vote (whether or not her efforts were decisive). Certainly she told Randy enough to verify Bob's side of the story. I'm going with what Randy says, sorry. We saw him defy the "Kota peer pressure," so I think he was his own man. Good luck with the Survivor: Corinne fanfic.
SwineForkbeard		#50	[-]
Posts: 2026 (12/21/08 2:18 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think Bob also probably lucked out that Susie won that last immunity challenge, since they made it look like she would have been voted out had she not. It would be hard for me to believe that Matty would have been dumb enough to vote for Susie instead of forcing a tie between Susie and Bob, except that it's Matty we're talking about. Had Matty been in the final 3 with Sugar and Bob, I think he would have been the favorite. He said Randy was his favorite person in the game, so I'm guessing Randy would have voted for him. If you concede Susie, Crystal, and Kenny to Matty, he wins. We'll never know, of course, but just throwing it out there.
SwineForkbeard		#51	[-]
Posts: 2027 (12/21/08 4:52 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I guess you have to give him props for the fake idols, just because they ended up changing the game, though in ways he couldn't have intended. I'd be more impressed if he thought of it himself than if he was just copying Yau-Man like Ozzy was. I wish somebody had asked him about that.
crocophile		#52	[-]
Posts: 10429 (12/21/08 5:21 AM) MESS Moderator Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sam Buru wrote: Strategy? Does anyone here know the best "strategic" move that guarantees you will go one step further in the game? Evidently Bob did. That's right Sam. Sandra used that strategy as well. That plus winning key ICs, being himself, his believable fake idols and spining a few decent tails was what it took to win a strategically challenged game like S18. He kept hmself in it long enough to take advantage. When the so-called strategists like Kenny, Ace and Marcus/Onions shoot themselves in the foot badly, it's hardly like they were deserving. If they ever have another ASS, Sugar should represent. She was most compelling character. She saved not only Bob but Crystal and likely Kenny (when they booted Ace), and of course Matty. I like Matty too, exactly what did he do in this game? Last Edited By: crocophile 12/21/08 5:24 AM. Edited 1 times.
SwineForkbeard		#53	[-]
Posts: 2028 (12/21/08 8:28 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	They'd be crazy not to vote Sugar off first. They'd also know she'd hog all their airtime.
craig		#54	[-]
Posts: 14623 (12/21/08 11:15 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sugar would have two strikes against her - physically weak and untrustworthy. I mean you can't even trust her to do what's in her own game interest. I think Bob also probably lucked out that Susie won that last immunity challenge, since they made it look like she would have been voted out had she not.... Had Matty been in the final 3 with Sugar and Bob, I think he would have been the favorite. He said Randy was his favorite person in the game, so I'm guessing Randy would have voted for him. If you concede Susie, Crystal, and Kenny to Matty, he wins. We'll never know, of course, but just throwing it out there. I think Crystal would be the swing vote in that scenario. She didn't like Matty, and regretted not booting him at F7 while still in the game. Bob offered to work with her and took her one reward. Crystal didn't have the chip on her shoulder against him that kenny did. Not sure if she'd care about a Fang winning if that person was Matty.
SPunKeeMonKee		#55	[-]
Posts: 11658 (12/22/08 8:10 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Bob never admitted to playing the game and always fell back on his faux-integrity bullshit, so if he really didn't plan on giving Ken immunity then he should've admitted it. I don't understand how so many people could misconstrue it as Ken being bitter about Bob screwing him over. Bob = one of the worst.winners.ever Sugar didn't hand him the million. She's was a cop-out, she refused to choose, and Bob's firemaking skills prevailed. Nope, she saved him already twice before: first with the Randy trick and then again when she turned on Crystal. All she could've done was make it a tie anyway, and the fact that she never warned Matty about it is proof enough that she preferred Bob over him. And I honestly don't blame anybody for keeping Sugar around that long. She sucked at challenges and was so gullible (or so it seemed). Nobody could anticipate her doing what she did at F6.
crocophile		#56	[-]
Posts: 10430 (12/22/08 8:39 AM) MESS Moderator Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Bob totally explained that he found out he was going to get screwed over had he handed over the IN, and Kenny even admited he would. No one would have handed over the IN at that point.
urrout		#57	[-]
Posts: 1840 (12/22/08 9:11 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	crocophile wrote: Bob totally explained that he found out he was going to get screwed over had he handed over the IN, and Kenny even admited he would. No one would have handed over the IN at that point. So are you saying that Bob 100% would have handed the idol over to Kenny had he not found out Kenny planned to screw him over?
crocophile		#58	[-]
Posts: 10431 (12/22/08 9:44 AM) MESS Moderator Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I can't read his mind, but it sure was made to look like it. Re Kenny the simply fact was he didn't have to try the "fancy footwork" to out the fake Idol, that was just an example of how he totally blew it by overplaying his hand. Bob didn't really owe him anything.
I LUV TIJUANA		#59	[-]
Posts: 11871 (12/22/08 10:16 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Sugar didn't hand him the million. She's was a cop-out, she refused to choose, and Bob's firemaking skills prevailed. You're an idiot. She couldn't single-handedly control the vote. Susie & Matty were voting for Bob, she took the risk to tie it up. There's nothing more she could have done for him. She handed him the million.Get over your Sugar jealousy. Agreed with Croc that Sugar was by far the most compelling character of the season. She's the only thing that kept me watching. Last Edited By: I LUV TIJUANA 12/22/08 10:19 AM. Edited 1 times.
urrout		#60	[-]
Posts: 1841 (12/22/08 10:19 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If Bob even had the slightest intention to give Kenny the necklace, then he did not deserve the win even if Kenny had not planned on going after Bob. It meant he needed two other votes to be safe. So he would have to trust 3 people unless he was planning on sacrificing himself for Kenny. If he was playing Kenny and never intended to give him the necklace, all Kenny wanted him to do was admit it and he may have gotten Kenny's vote. Instead Bob hid behind Kenny's betrayal plan for the reason he didn't give Kenny the necklace. Kenny also wanted Bob to admit he changed the rules of the agreement. The deal was if Kenny himself thought he was in trouble not if Bob thought he was in trouble, Bob would give him the necklace. BTW, was part of their agreement that Kenny guaranteed he would not go after Bob or did Bob just assume he wouldn't? I don't remember.

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Congratulations, Bob Crowley - Winner of Survivor: Gabon!

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