fat little fingers wrote:
As long as all of you recognize that, individually, UTR and MOR are no better than the other.
Exactly right.
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Green Coffee |
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fat little fingers wrote: Exactly right. |
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Oowatanite |
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Since many of you edgicers don't venture out of this thread, I will take it upon myself to post some awesome photchops as the season goes on. Enjoy !
From blis
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7Sages |
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Jedijake |
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As long as all of you recognize that, individually, UTR and MOR are no better than the other.Is that actually true? A string of MOR's is better for a possible winner than a string of UTR's. |
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wallduck |
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P + UTR makes no sense as well. (If they were edited enough to have tone they weren't UTR.)Disagree. UTR and the other ratings are about complexity. UTR is appropriate for a character who shows up in an episode but doesn't get much development. Tone is much easier to confer than complexity, and so it's not hard at all to give someone a dose of P or N while giving them minimal complexity development. It can be done via SPV, or it can be done by showing the character briefly in a negative or positive light. UTRN is a fine rating for a character who walks on and says something petty or whiney, and it's frequently used on characters who will show up OTTN in later episodes. UTRN edits can be quite entertaining. UTRP is frequently used to make us start to like a character, and it's often followed with an MORP or CPP in following episodes. For example, I'd call Spencer's edit in episode 1 UTRP. This perhaps is about the line between UTR and MOR. The MOR rating strikes me as vague, and I tend to avoid it except to describe narrators or edits that seem all over the place. |
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panurge46 |
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MasterDarkNinja wrote: Brendan did make positive impressions in Episode #1 on a key player and on the viewers: - Coach determined that he was worthy to be included in his grand plan. - Brendan won the challenge for Timbira. It's not much but it's possible that the editors considered that it was enough for his first episode and didn't feel the need to add anything. You don't want another Earl, do you?! Ratings: JT: MORP2 Joe: UTR2 Spencer: MOR2 Sandy: MOR2 Stephen: CPP3 Sydney: UTR1 Taj: CPP4 Ben: OTTN4 Brendan: CPP5 Debra: UTR2 Candance(!): CPM5 Jerry: UTRP2 (I loved how he represented the viewers in the final scene at camp) Sierra: CPP4 Erinn: MOR2 Tyson: MORM3 Top Contenders: Brendan, Sierra, JT, Tyson Possible: Erinn, Stephen, Jerry Unlikely: Sandy, Taj, Coach No way: Joe, Spencer, Sydney, Debra I wrote my comments here: http://survivorsucks.yuku.com/topic/46343 |
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BlakeB717 |
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EPISODE TWO
JALAPAO Joe... UTR2... I almost debated giving him a 1 because he was so unmemorable, definitely not winning JT... MORP2... Stephen seemed to get most of the good juice about their relationship, he's a likeable guy who needs the money... I don't think he's complex enough to be that high of a contender but he is definitely a dark horse if people continue to fall for his charm Sandy... MORP2... I was debating UTR but she was so heavily focused in the recap 'Can Sandy survive' that it goes beyond that, and I think the intent was to really root for her to stay this time Spencer... MOR2... I debated a 3 but he was really forgettable, such a narrator, no chance in my book Stephen... CPP3... I debated OTTP but he had some insightful thoughts and strategy and character development which goes beyond OTT, he could be a dark horse or an Erik so if his story doesn't change then he will become OTTP Sydney... UTR1... another pretty blonde fades Taj... CPP4... I really wasn't sure about this, especially the tone, but you couldn't help but want her to succeed over the notion that she doesn't deserve it, she gave very good insight (we learned about her life back at home) that even though she may not need the money, she has a cause too, and also has legs with her relationship with Brendan TIMBIRA Coach... MORN4... I could see OTT but I think they purposely downplayed a lot of his screentime, I felt that there was a lot lacking in the substance but I didn't think he was one-dimensional so I don't think CP or OTT works, thus MOR Brendan... CP5... tons of insight and development, very strategic, however a poor episode one followed by a huge episode two is typically a death sentence for a player (ie. Cirie in Micronesia), he is going to last, he wasn't toned either way because he was all business and content, no manipulation Candace... CPN5... a lot of insight about how she treats people at home and the cause and effect of eliminating Coach, had depth to her, although her ousting was unfortunate she is N because of the music about the firepit and the editors wanted us to be not-so-sad she left, her and Coach have similar personalities-- negative, and Jerry got a subtitled line about it too Debbie... UTR2... I could see MOR or OTT because she is crazy, but everytime she spoke she was off camera and was insignificant to a lot going on, she was used more for filler or initiating a scene, completely insignificant and toneless because there was no real impression of her Erinn... UTR2... she may have been seen a lot but there was no character development, they're purposely hiding her for something bigger, she was secondary to Candace Jerry... UTR2... keeping up with his strategy not to be bossy and lead, although he does have good leadership abilities, him and Tyson both seemed to be shown as the smart ones letting Coach drown himself Sierra... CP4... tons of manipulation and breaks in her confessionals to make her self-aware of her position, however no tone because there was no manipulation for us to feel sympathetic towards her; she's in a bad spot and she's doing something about it and here is how-- all business Tyson... MOR3... another holding episode (with subtitled hints to his character) and is shown as a realistic voice, him and Jerry have an interesting connection and he is starting to look a lot like Aras and Coach as Shane CONTENDERS (I'm only going to do 3 now) 1. Tyson... has a really good start, well hidden, good content, and good hints that foreshadow how he's going to play this game, and he also fits into the theme of first impressions may not be what you think 2. Jerry... I know this may seem crazy but I think both these boys have an interesting connection and seem to know how to play the game, he's the likeable one of these two, he most likely won't win but if Tyson is blindsided then Jerry's story will take off, his story could be more OTTP but they haven't done so, and they've made sure we know who he is and how he is playing (low-key) 3. Sierra... excellent numbers, even though she is female, but her story is arcing really fast and I think she may fall victim to Coach "4". People to watch for: JT or Stephen... it depends on how important this duo turns out to be, is Jalapao a winning tribe? I think it's all about Timbira. I'm getting major Casaya vibes from them. "5". Wildshots but have something different that needs to play out: Sandy and Erinn... we'll have to wait and see EDGIC CHART
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fat little fingers |
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Episode 2 Ratings and Rantings "People may think this is a really stupid idea, but..." Jalapao... ![]() ![]()
JT MORP2 ![]()
Stephen, "JT has definitely emerged as our tribal leader..." Yay, good for JT, he gets a P. But, leading is what he wanted to avoid, sorta, in his ep1 confessional. On the other hand, he said his "biggest challenge would be fitting in with people", and he seems to be succeeding. What's not good for JT is that his confessional about Stephen is supplemental to Stephen's confessional, instead of the other way round. And it is bookended by Stephen's confessionals. He could be our winner, but now seems part of Stephen's story rather than the other way round. Joe UTR2 ![]() ![]()
Even after last season, I feel I can pretty comfortably scratch Joe from the winner list after this ep. Sandy OTT2 ![]()
Sandy, "I made it through Tribal Council by a landslide!..." Spencer, "...now it's Carolina first and Sandy after that." After winning RC/IC: "There was a 50-50 chance of me going home. But now I'm here for several more days!" Sandy's may have reached that sweet spot, where everyone knows you're a write-off, so they stop thinking about you. At least if she stays as quiet as she is at the moment. Then she can stick around until it dawns on someone that she's the perfect goat to take to the end. If she avoids being booted on her next TC visit, expect her to stick around for a surprisingly long time. Spencer UTR2 ![]() ![]()
Spencer tells us that he's a teenager who's used to eating whenever he wants and he's missing the comfort foods of home. He tells us it's a big deal to be on Survivor with Eddie George's wife. After the RC/IC win he redundantly tells us that they've got fishing gear and are going to catch fish. Like Joe, I feel it's safe to say Spencer is not being groomed as our winner. Stephen CP3 ![]()
Okay! Now we're getting some real story action. Right on schedule, Stephen finds that he's actually best buddies with the redneck. Well, aren't we surprised. He's got one more person to connect or cross paths with and that's Sandy. Stephen is the character with the most confessional-storyline set-ups in episode1. Most importantly, he's the one who finishes the story about his new friendship with JT and is the one who ties it to the future game: "...But if he thinks I'm the goofy right-hand man, he's gonna want to keep me around longer." That tells me he and JT are both going to be around for some time. And how about this little teaser: Stephen, "I'm gonna become the greatest spear fisherman that's ever existed." JT, "Well, we don't have nothin' but time." Stephen's near the top of my winner list right now. Sydney UTR1 ![]() ![]()
One lovely woman. Not winning, but not going anywhere just yet either. Taj CPP4 ![]() ![]()
She watches the guys eat grubs. She lets it slip that she's married to a Heisman winner, ex NFL All- Pro. She's the one shown working Brendan until he lets her share in looking for the idol. And she's shown being the one who quickly figures out the clue. I don't know what that means for Taj, but it's not a great edit for Brendan. If she'd been featured at all in the opening episode, she'd be on my chart. But she wasn't and isn't. Timbira.. ![]() ![]()
Coach (a.k.a., Ben, a.k.a., Lounge Lizard, a.k.a., Mr.Hands, a.k.a., Cre-e-ep) OTTN4 ![]() ![]()
Candace, "That man has an ego bigger than Brazil. That will be the death of him. It's his ego!" Jeff, at the challenge, "Coach! Really draggin'!" 'nuff said. ![]() ![]()
Brendan MOR5 Okay, this dude is in alliances with two players on separate tribes concerning hidden immunity idols. This is a great season. Brendan looks like he's in a great strategic position. But, his confessionals lack complexity and plays narrator to both Sierra and Taj. He gives positive SPV to Sierra for her quick thinking. He let's Taj talk him into looking for the idol together and is shown unable to figure out the clue on his own. Taj seems to have the upper hand, as she tells Brendan, "I haven't bonded with anyone yet, so we have to bond!" At TC, Brendan tells Jeff that Time-Out Island was a, "cool experience..." All in all, a lot of missed opportunities for Brendan's character. Not good. Candace OTTN5 ![]() ![]()
(Can you avoid OTT with a bod like that? My wife commented, "Even I can't stop looking at those things!") "I'd rather sit around here and talk crap." Candace is OTT she's used as a tool for other stories this episode. She highlights the threat to Sierra. She brings out and nails Coach's fatal flaws. She's all one-ep distraction story. ![]()
She's N because of her "wicked witch" role in eyeballing Sierra and that's connected to Coach's "poison apple" comment. And she's N for being overly confident and having her one ally, Erinn, vote against her. Debbie UTR2 ![]() ![]()
Deb gets the Chimes of Doom at TC, after this reply to a much wiser Erinn: "Well, I've already built trust. (Chimes of Doom) I've built trust with several people on this tribe!" b'bye Deb. You and Coach got two tickets to Pondarosa Brasilia. Erinn MOR2 ![]() ![]()
Erinn has watchful scenes that are meant to lead up to her important speech at TC. Erinn comes really close to CP with this exchange at TC: Jeff, "Erinn, what are you reacting to?" Erinn, "We can talk all day about how much we get along and this and that and the other thing, but we don't know these people! We've known them for six days, but I don't know if the person I bonded with is really who they are. I just think we need to be careful." Debbie, "...that's how you really get to know someone." Erinn, "But, I don't know if that's how you get to trust someone." My question after this: Is Erinn the one to watch or is she an observant narrator and we should measure how others relate to her wisdom? Jerry UTR2 ![]() ![]()
Someone rated Jerry as "barely there" this episode and I agree. But, his "theres" were as strong or stronger than Erinn or Tyson's. On top of that, neither Erinn or Tyson had an opening confessional that did as much as Jerry's in ep1. Jerry's Ep1 confessional: "...I have a hundred men under me and I know how to give orders. But, in Survivor, everybody has their own individual mind so, I'm gonna try to keep it as low-key as I can. I don't wanna be in charge! If you're in charge, you're not gonna last too long!" We know Jerry's game plan and we know that he's sticking to it. TC and Trust Jerry's response to Jeff, "Trust is a major issue in this game. 'Cause if you got the trust of more than half of the tribe, you're gonna be here for a while. But, if you can't win the trust, you're time here is limited." A big minus for his chances was that his TC comment about "bonding" was contradicted by Erinn's speech about trust. Jerry is probably going to last a while, but whether that translates in winner hasn't been shown yet. Someone also pronounced Jerry "boring" and that is something that sticks out for me too. I need another confessional that gets into Jerry's head some more. But if anyone can be pronounced as on his game plan by being "barely there" and "boring", it's Jerry. Sierra CP4 ![]() ![]()
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Her character is so high-profile, I want to look beyond her to someone less in our faces. But, they are shaping her as very sympathetic and someone to root for, while hammering away at how in danger she is. It's awfully early for so much drama if she's meant to last. But, there's no way to avoid the situation she's in, story-wise. Still, the edit doesn't have to make her so watchful and thoughtful. She starts off telling us that she's still on the outs and tells Brendan she needs to find the idol and to keep winning, because it will only work for the first TC after it's found. Brendan gives her positive SPV in this very cut-and pasted confessional. Look how hard the edit forces some of these random pieces together: "Debbie caught us /break/ luckily /break/ Sierra /break/ had the idea /break/ tonight that /break/ building a fire pit /break/ which I thought's really smart. heh /break/ ah... and I just kinda went with it." She repeats her Ep1 line, "People may think this is a really stupid idea, but...", again when she decides to stop looking for the idol: ![]() ![]()
"We were so close to getting caught. /break/ It may be a stupid move /break/ but, tell you the truth, I don't think it's worth it /break/ to continue looking for the hidden immunity idol /break/ even though I know where I stand in this camp with these people /break/ and I'm really worried about my position." Take this confessional apart and you see how completely constructed her thought process is: 1) We were so close to getting caught. 2) It may be a stupid move - Is this line taken from ep1 and pasted here? 3) but, tell you the truth, I don't think it's worth it 4) to continue looking for the hidden immunity idol 5) even though I know where I stand in this camp with these people 6) and I'm really worried about my position. Again we are shown that her "stupid move" is a smart move and she triumphs over OTTN Candace in the end. In the "Previously on Survivor..." sequences, she repeats her "People may think this is a stupid idea, but.." And Jeff states that Sierra's decision not to look for the idol, "...may have worked... or not." She has a solid story that is being reinforced over two opening episodes. The question hags over her head, Is she making the right moves and will she survive. Before Tribal Council: Candace tells Erinn that they are too valuable to be voted off. It is followed by Sierra's confessional: "...I'm not comfortable at all. I still have not found the Hidden Immunity Idol. So, I'm still looking behind my back." During TC: She gets the first question and like Sandy, it lets her comment on her key moment in the game. She uses it to try and bond, again, by agreeing with their initial decision: "Um...part of me wanted to give up for a second. It was written all over my face that I was sick, so I automatically looked weak from the get-go. So, I think their vote was valid." This is followed by Tyson and Candace giving their negative first impressions of Sierra. We have many shots of Sierra listening intently, including Erinn's warning speech. Here is the sequence of reaction shots during Erinn's advice: ![]() ![]()
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Like Stephen's confessional, I'm interested in people who bookend other people's scenes. Sierra bookends Erinn's key warning about trust and bonding. Not with speech, like Stephen, but by being shown listening and thinking about what is being said. TCs are hard to judge, though. At the end, happy and relieved, she looks back and smiles at Coach. The question for Sierra now is, will she take Erinn's advice and keep watching her back, as she said before TC. Or will she let down her guard and let Coach snake her? Is this all too much too soon? Maybe, but there is a lot of shaping going on in this edit. Definitely one to watch for now. Tyson MOR3 ![]() ![]()
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Tyson's very low-profile this ep, but scenes make sure to show that he is in the middle of the action. He's outside the noise this ep, but is always shown in the middle of things. He gets an unnecessary scene in which he jokingly messes with Candace: ![]() ![]()
It's both sorta flirty and sorta dark. A goofy moment or something more? To show that Candace is fallible or that Tyson can lie to your face? He's used he's used several times, after losing the RC/IC, to give doubt to Sierra's TC survival: "...Sierra's just too small for that kind of challenge." He's shown with Jerry three times, talking things over with him twice, which shows their connection. ![]() ![]()
At TC: He is shown in some reaction shots and giving some more doubt to Sierra: ![]()
"...Sierra was struggling (at the truck), I didn't see her pulling anything off, not very happy, so..." Tyson was in the middle of all the action, minus Sierra and Brendan's idol search, if just as a silent observer. His scene with Candace needs to be noted, as well as his cryptic, "and this is just the beginning." comment to Jerry. Are they talking about the coming TC vote or something beyond. Can't be ruled out. Winner List Sierra Stephen Jerry JT Erinn Tyson |
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guatemala fanfic |
EPISODE 2 RATINGS | ||
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Survivor: Tocantins - Episode 2 (Ratings Watchdog)
Here are my final ratings for Episode 2. This season I'm going to arrange my post roughly in order of their rank on my winner's list.
Top Tier
1. Tyson: MOR3 Rating: Once again, Tyson got some good development even though he didn't appear to be central to the story. He got a confessional after the Immunity Challenge saying that Sierra was probably going to be the one voted off, and then he was "inserted" into the strategizing of the tribe in a scene with Jerry where they talked about Candace and Sierra. It seems like Tyson wanted to vote for Sierra over Candace based on his second confessional, which was about Sierra being too weak for a challenge like the physical one they had. He also had a TCQ about Sierra - interestingly, now that I think about it, his entire edit this week was based on Sierra. Hmm… Tone: After the big debate last week, I'm glad he was neutral this time! Visibility: I could see a 2 or a 3 for him, but since he had two confessionals, he definitely should rank above Erinn and Debbie, IMO.
VERDICT: Last week was #1 Episode 2: Once again, Tyson got some good development even though he didn't appear to be central to the story. He seemed to get just the right amount of attention in Timbira's first Tribal Council episode without it being too much or too little, and he got some subtle moments of strategy. He continues to be my #1 choice, although he is not as high above everyone else as he was last week. Sierra inched up on him a little bit.
Episode 1: Tyson is my #1 winner pick at the moment for a few reasons. Yes, he got an opening confessional, but let's explore that a little bit more. Stephen/Sandy got opening confessionals that pointed to Sandy being picked for Jalapao's first impressions vote. Sierra/Coach got confessionals that pointed to Sierra being picked for Timbira's vote. It obviously made sense for both of those sets of confessionals to be included in the episode. So why randomly include Tyson and Erinn as the first set that is shown? My guess as of right now is because Tyson (not Erinn) wins. Erinn's confessional told that audience that the winner was a good guy to have around and it was the first "first impression" to be shown.
In addition to that, as I said back on Thursday, Tyson got an Aras-like scene that built his character up and it was included in the episode when it did not have to be shown. In fact it added nothing really to the episode and the editors could have easily put something there about Candace or someone else on Timbira. Also, the positioning of this scene in the episode makes it seem like it was just thrown in there before the Immunity Challenge. There was *some* reason why this was put in there, and for right now, I think it's because Tyson wins.
He also got a specific confessional that introduced his character to the audience as the "not-typical Mormon."
I believe he was also the first to mention "million dollars" in the episode - the same as Todd was in China.
I believe the winner will more likely come from the Timbira tribe.
2. Sierra: CP4 Rating: Sierra got a pretty big scene with Brendan at the start of the episode where she talked about her position in the tribe and needing the hidden Immunity Idol. The big thing that stood out about her edit was self-awareness of where she fit into the tribe and how she needed to change it. I know it's obvious that she's on the outs due to the Episode 1 vote, but that doesn't mean that the edit isn't crafting her in a particular way and showing her as someone who knows what's going on. So it is for the self-awareness that she earns a CP over a MOR. Tone: I think she was leaning P again, but I didn't really think it was as overt as Episode 1. Actually, she even had a few minor N SPVs, like Candace saying she didn't want to be here as much as everyone else and Tyson talking about how she was weak and not helping much when the tribe was gathering supplies on Day 1. Visibility: Clear 4.
VERDICT: Last week was #2 Episode 2: The attention that Sierra has been getting is interesting, especially for a female. Her edit is one of the strongest for a woman in recent memory. Of course, most of her visibility is times when she has to be shown, but not all of it, and she's certainly being treated in a way that makes her favourable to the audience. This episode gave her some good game insights about the hidden Immunity Idol, and I think she's still someone to watch for sure.
Episode 1: This is difficult to say because due to her being picked by Timbira for the first vote, she had to be shown. But I think the way the editors chose to portray her is important. They portrayed her in a positive light and in a way where she overcame a first impression and improved on the way her tribemates viewed her (even though Coach still wanted to vote her out). They could have made her negative or whiny, but they didn't.
She was got an opening confessional, which last season confirmed has to be important due to Bob being shown before the credits.
I believe the winner will more likely come from the Timbira tribe, and next to Tyson, I have the fewest reasons to lower her on the list. I'm noticing some potential flaws with some of the other people, but not Sierra yet.
Second Tier
3. Stephen: CPP3 Rating: Stephen had three confessionals, all of which were good for his character development: one saying he has no idea who Eddie George is; one saying J.T. is the leader and he's really glad to get to know him; he also calls him self an "angsty city boy" compared to the "Alabama country boy." His final confessional was about the fishing trip: he said it was successful in cementing his bond with J.T. and this is where he gave the most game insight. He said that because he's J.T.'s "goofy, awkward right-hand man" J.T. is going to want to keep him around longer. I could see him just getting a MOR, but I think that the character development was significant enough for him to be considered a "well-developed" character. Tone: A P. I feel that's the intent of the edit even though there isn't anything specific that enforces it. He just came across as a likable and good-natured guy. Visibility: Clear 3.
VERDICT: Last week was #8 Episode 2: Stephen makes the biggest jump up this week for his insightful comments on his relationship with J.T. and how that works into the game. I'm not convinced he'll be the winner, as much as I am that he will make at least the mid-game, but going strictly by his ratings, his edit looks very good.
Episode 1: Stephen was interesting in that he was a part of two "paired" sets of confessionals: one with Sandy before the opening credits, and one with J.T., so he got to give his impressions of TWO players. I'm not sure what it means though. I would rank him above Spencer, but I think the only reason Stephen's confessional was in there before the opening credits is because of Sandy - it was more significant for her to be there, not him.
4. J.T.: MORP3 Rating: J.T. had two confessionals: one saying that Taj makes a lot more money than he does, and one saying he gets along well with Stephen (the city boy). He was also present in the Taj scene and the fishing scene that focused primarily on himself and Stephen. Tone: A P because he got positive SPV from Stephen, and I just feel that there was a positive intent with his edit. Visibility: Definitely should be a 3.
VERDICT: Last week was #3 Episode 2: I still think Timbira remains the more complex tribe, but I also maintain that J.T. has one of the two best edits on Jalapao. He and Stephen are neck-and-neck (they could be 3-4 or 4-3), but I think Stephen got a little bit more insight into that relationship. Still, J.T. had a very strong Episode 1 edit so looking at both episodes together, he remains a great pick at this point.
Episode 1: Even though I'm pretty certain the winner will come from Timbira at this point, J.T. definitely has the best chances out of anyone on Jalapao. Next to Sandy and Carolina, I would say he left the strongest impression and he was the next most visible after them. As I mentioned above, he was borderline CP (which is important) and he also got a strange confessional that introduced himself to the audience.
It's hard to explain why I would put one person over the other because I really do feel that most of my top seven or so are pretty even, with the exception of Tyson. Maybe it's just because I wanted to have a Jalapao up there, but I definitely do see something in J.T.'s edit.
5. Erinn: UTR2 Rating: A difficult one. No confessionals; spoke at Tribal Council about building trust (it came out of nowhere), and she was in the background of a lot of scenes. Almost everyone has already mentioned the reaction shots; I noticed them too, but I won't beat a dead horse about that. I don't think her edit was significant enough to earn a MOR. Sorry. Tone: Like last week, I feel that she was a minor N, though it's never really emphasized enough. Still, she leans N and she seems to me like Kelly to Candace's Paloma. Visibility: A 2. I never like to say that other people's ratings are wrong (and people can feel free to say it about mine if they choose), but like Debbie's, I really don't understand how she can be a 3, especially if someone like J.T. is only getting a 2 from some of you. Spencer and Stephen were 3s and it doesn't make sense for Erinn or Debbie to have the same number as them.
VERDICT: Last week was #5 Episode 2: Erinn stays at my #5 spot mostly because other people's edits are clearly worse than hers right now. I don't think this edit did much to help her chances, but they didn't plummet either. Episode 3 will be important in determining if she's just another Kelly or if she can last. I actually think, if she doesn't go early, she may be involved in taking out Coach, but that wouldn't point to her winning or not winning.
Episode 1: I initially had Erinn as #2 on my Contenders list but have since changed it. Despite being given an opening confessional (and the first of the season), I rank her outside of my top four for a few reasons. She was voted for at the first impressions vote by Brendan, yet this never came up at all in the episode and I would expect it to if she was the winner. This wouldn't just be glossed over.
But the opening confessional is important because, like I said in Tyson's write-up, there was a reason for the Sandy/Stephen confessionals and the Sierra/Coach confessionals. So why put Erinn and Tyson in there? My logic says that one of them is the winner, but considering the rest of their edits, the winner is Tyson, not Erinn. Still, that doesn't mean she won't be important to the season and tied to Tyson in some way.
I believe the winner will more likely come from the Timbira tribe.
Middle Tier
6. Sandy: MOR2 Rating: Sandy got two confessionals this week: the first said that Carolina playing her cards wrong helped Sandy stay in the game and she's underestimated. The second said that she's going to be sticking around a few more days because Jalapao won Immunity and there was a 50% chance of her going if they lost. I think, because some of her comments were game-related, she should earn a MOR edit. Look at hers in comparison to Joe or Sydney: Joe just kindof narrated about needing protein, but Sandy actually gave some insight in her confessionals. Tone: Maybe a very, very minor P if we were supposed to be happy that she stuck around. Visibility: A clear 2.
VERDICT: Last week was #9 Episode 2: I said last week that she would have to get an UTR2 or MOR2 this week in order to stay in contention, and she did, so the fact that she got a cooldown is what moved her up my list. Also, even with a MOR2 edit, she still said some game-related things which I think was important and definitely keeps her on my radar. The next episode that Jalapao goes to Tribal Council will be key for her because then we'll see if the cooldown was only because Timbira lost.
Episode 1: Sandy's edit was very intriguing to me. At one point I almost gave her CPP, and that's what's most interesting: even though her edit (and personality) was seemingly OTT, there was still quite a bit of complexity there. One of the things that stood out most to me in the entire episode was when Sandy first arrived at Jalapao and she was crying at the flag. She said "I'm gonna make it to 39 days; I'm gonna show 'em, cause maybe I am the older woman, but I'm older and I'm wiser. This game is mine. This is what I believe with all my heart. So let the games begin." This jumped out to me as a possible winner's quote (or at least indicative that she might surprisingly make it to Day 39) and I started to think: how would Sandy be edited differently than this if she had won? And I don't know that she WOULD be. Yes, her visibility was insanely high, but she had to be shown given the fact that she was picked to "not make the journey" by Jalapao. And she got a significant amount of insight about the game as well, such as "I have to look at for number one, me."
My Episode 1 rating (and the consensus) for Bob was OTTP3, so a winner getting an OTT edit in the first episode is not out of the question, especially in this instance where Sandy has a crazy personality. I can't discount her just for the OTT, especially when I feel like her edit had so much development to it.
Unless she's a MAJOR part of Episode 2 and can't avoid being shown, she'd probably have to go down to something like UTR2 or MOR2 in order to stay in…
7. Spencer: MOR3 Rating: Four narrative confessionals with not a lot of personal insight. Kept the story moving along really well. A great example of a MOR3. Tone: Pretty neutral this time. Visibility: A clear 3.
VERDICT: Last week was #7 Episode 2: Spencer stays at #7 this week, even though I would say his chances are lower than last week. Why? He seems like he's going to be the "narrator" for the season, and the narrator is more than likely not going to be the winner. Still, his edit doesn't look bad just going strictly by the ratings and numbers, so he's definitely not close to elimination yet.
Episode 1: Spencer got the second best edit on Jalapao, and as I said, it's hard to say why J.T. would be #3 and Spencer is at #7. A lot of these are interchangeable. But Spencer had a confessional introducing himself to the audience and I think that's important. The only reason this doesn't have quite as much stock is because it was pretty much a given with him being only 19 years-old. He also had a clear role in the strategy at the end of the episode, which I think could have been left out if the editors wanted to show someone else instead. Nevertheless, he's one to watch and I expect him to be around for a while.
8. Jerry: UTR2 Rating: Jerry barely earns an UTR2. He was practically INV1 until Tribal Council, and then he got two Tribal Council questions at the end. Tone: Pretty neutral this time. Visibility: Again, he was kindof a close call between a 1 and a 2, but I think a 2 is better.
VERDICT: Last week was #6 Episode 2: Jerry is just on the brink of being in the "Close to Elimination" category. This was not a good episode for him being that it was the first time Timbira went to Tribal Council. I think he will need a big episode next time for him to stay in this category. If not, he gets downgraded.
Episode 1: Jerry was definitely put onto our radars with his confessional, and not only did it introduce his character as an Army Sergeant but it was also strategically insightful with his comment about not wanting to be a leader.
I believe the winner will more likely come from the Timbira tribe, which is why Jerry ranks just above the other 3 in this category.
Close to Elimination
If not for me being extra cautious as a result of Gabon, I would probably eliminate the people in this category:
9. Brendan: CP5 Rating: I think this one is pretty self-explanatory. Tone: N/A Visibility: A clear 5.
VERDICT: Last week was #10 Episode 2: Despite a strong Episode 2, his edit lacks a premiere where he made a memorable first impression and was introduced to the audience. He was only an extension of Coach in Episode 1, so we learned nothing about him. That keeps him low on my list, but I wouldn't be at all surprised for him to be in the game until Final Five or Six. The fact that he got so much development on Exile makes me think he'll be around and the alliance with Taj will prove to be significant.
Episode 1: Even though he was featured in the scenes before the first commercial break, Brendan did not make any impression and none of his airtime was about himself. He would have been introduced as a multi-millionaire who started a granola company had he won.
Update: Brendan was introduced as an entrepreneur (not a self-made millionaire) in Episode 2. He has potential to go up significantly on my list in the next episode or two.
10. Taj: CPP4 Rating: Taj had a scene where she said who her husband was, and quite a few people talked about her here (mostly Spencer, Joe, and J.T.), so she got some SPV there. On Exile, she got a confessional about each choosing an urn for the clue to the idol, and then she got Brendan to tell her the clue. Her second confessional was the most significant one though: she talked about trying to be friendly to work Brendan over for the clue because she knew that her tribe was thinking she didn't need the money when she found out who her husband was. Like Sierra, Taj shows self-awareness of her position in the tribe IN ADDITION to strategy, so I definitely think she should be CP. She was also the one that suggested to Brendan that they had to bond because she knew she was vulnerable. Tone: This is tough because I'm not sure it was truly the intent of the edit as much as she came across as likable and fun in a Cirie-like way. That shouldn't earn her an automotive P, but I feel that we were supposed to root for her given the scene on Exile, especially with her wanting to succeed for herself even though she doesn't need the money, so I'm giving her a WEAK P. Visibility: Could be a 3 or a 4, but since she had an extended scene on Exile and got another scene devoted to her husband + SPV, I think a 4 is appropriate.
VERDICT: Last week was #11 Episode 2: Despite a strong Episode 2, her edit lacks a premiere where she made a memorable first impression and was introduced to the audience. We learned nothing about her. That keeps her low on my list, but I wouldn't be at all surprised for her to be in the game until around Final Five or Six. The fact that she got quite a bit of focus on Exile makes me think she'll be around and the alliance with Brendan will prove to be significant. [Interesting that I've said essentially the same thing for Taj and Brendan both weeks]
Episode 1: Taj did not make a strong impression and none of her airtime was about herself. She would have been introduced as an NFL wife and former pop star from SWV had she won.
Update: Taj was introduced as an NFL wife in Episode 2. She has potential to go up significantly on my list in the next episode or two.
11. Coach: MORN4 Rating: This is a tough one because I could see CPN, MORN, or OTTN all working. I started this post thinking I was giving him OTTN, and then I changed it to MORN. I know that some people will disagree with my reasoning, but PART of my reasoning is that I think he had some complex moments and some more over-the-top moments, and it's hard to go with one over the other in that instance. He had three confessionals: one saying that Candace looks for flaws in people just for the heck of it, but he does it because he's a coach (= ARROGANT). His second confessional said everyone was fed up with Candace's negative attitude, and his third confessional said that the girls think they're voting for Sierra but the obvious choice was Candace and "hopefully she has her bags packed cause she's outta here." All of that was somewhat complex at times, but none of his strategic thought were particularly insightful or well-developed. At the same time, nothing was really overly simplified (contrary to what I thought before). At Tribal Council, he said that no one's going to tell you if you're not gelling with the tribe so you're gonna have to know that yourself, and he talked about what Brendan said about the clue and said he trusts him. Tone: Definitely N this time. He got N SPV about his performance in the challenge (even from Jeff), and he did come across as very arrogant again. Visibility: Clear 4.
VERDICT: Last week was #4 Episode 2: Coach goes WAY down on my list after this episode. A CPN/MORN start is not good (originally, I had OTTN). Candace said something about his ego being his downfall, and I believe that this will happen 100%. Therefore, if this is right, he won't win but he'll probably last until around the Final Six or so and then get taken out of the game because he's been getting significant focus which suggests he'll be around awhile.
Episode 1: Coach could potentially be an "obvious winner" like some of the male winners of recent seasons past, but I put him lower on my list because I think he's more likely to go one of two ways: 1) Either he ironically gets taken out of the game by a so-called "weak" player (most likely Sierra); or 2) He ends up getting beaten by a so-called "worthy opponent" (most likely Brendan or Jerry) and dies with honor and glory. Therefore, while his edit definitely has potential, he's not going to be the winner if either of these scenarios comes true.
Still, he got a confessional before the opening credits, introduced himself to the audience as a "Renaissance Man," and I believe the winner will more likely come from the Timbira tribe, which is why I put him up here.
Eliminated by Edgic
12. Joe: UTR2 Rating: The only time we really saw him was during the termite-eating scene at Jalapao, but he also had a minor role talking about Eddie George in the Taj scene. Tone: N/A Visibility: I could see either a 1 or a 2, but he did speak quite a bit during the termite scene and he had a confessional, so I think he had more than Sydney.
VERDICT: Last week was #12 Episode 2: Not a strong enough first or second episode to win. Moves into the eliminated category this week.
Episode 1: Not a strong enough first episode to win.
13. Sydney: UTR1 Rating: Just one short confessional during the termite-eating scene and then some challenge visibility, but that's about all. Definitely UTR. Tone: N/A Visibility: The lowest of everyone in the episode. Definitely a 1.
VERDICT: Last week was #13 Episode 2: Not a strong enough first or second episode to win. Moves into the eliminated category this week.
Episode 1: Not a strong enough first episode to win.
14. Debbie: UTRN2 Rating: I can understand why some people are giving her OTTs, but she seemed so underutilized to me and not emphasized enough to really get an OTT. I would have to say that UTR fits a lot better. Tone: I considered giving her a Mixed just because I see the first part of her edit ("cheerleading" with Brendan/Sierra digging the fire pit) as being somewhat positive, but after seeing her tattle to Coach and her comment at Tribal Council, the overall impression that I was left with was N, and I think this outweighed the first part of her edit. I also see that, like with Tyson, there is a bit of ambiguity with people rating her P and N, but instead of M, I'm going to side with the N group. Visibility: A 2. I never like to say that other people's ratings are wrong (and people can feel free to say it about mine if they choose), but like Erinn's, I really don't understand how she can be a 3, especially if someone like J.T. is only getting a 2 from some of you. Spencer and Stephen were 3s and it doesn't make sense for Debbie or Erinn to have the same number as them.
VERDICT: Last week was #14 Definitely cannot win, but she's more likely to stick around for a while than Candace is.
Voted Out
15. Candace: OTTN5 Rating: She definitely had some brief moments of complexity, but I felt that she was very simplified in the end with comments like "poison apple" and "cancer." She seemed to exemplify negativity with comments like "I probably won't go. We can sit here and talk crap" about Sierra and Brendan's supposed fire pit. Then she had that little argument with Coach about the rice and had a ranting confessional about being an educated woman and not taking crap from people. Again, a bit of complexity in saying that he would feel insecure and apologize, but then the moment with the kiss was just very OTT for both of them and I really don't see the complexity in her edit aside from that one instance. The rest of the time it seemed so simplified and that they were trying to make it look like she had no idea what was going on: in two of her confessionals, she said things like "Someone" has to go now and "if Sierra doesn't go home, there's mad shadiness going on" when it was incredibly obvious that she was going to go. That doesn't seem complex to me. Tone: Even though I do think we were meant to agree with her about Coach, I don't think that erases her obvious negativity. Visibility: I'm going by Warrior's chart on this one. I was personally leaning more towards a 4, just because I count confessionals like ILT's thread.
VERDICT: Last week was #15 Episode 1: From my Episode 1 post: "Definitely cannot win. Based on editing, I predict Mary v.2.0 with her." At least I got one thing right this season!
CHART:
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guatemala fanfic |
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Wow, looks like Blake, FLF, and I are all working on the same schedule this
week!
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chaperone |
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Good post, FLF. I read every word. Well, I skipped a couple words to be honest, but I read a lot of words.
I'm going Stephen or Sierra for now, though I agree with your list of can't be eliminated folks. I'm enjoying this season. |
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I LUV TIJUANA |
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BlakeB717 |
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LOL! Same schedule and pretty much the same ratings, too!
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Kathy Fan 2 |
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I LUV TIJUANA wrote:Me. LOL. I wanted to make a montage of the strange reaction shots of the episode. |
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Jedijake |
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The ONE thing that currently bothers me about Sierra is this. I wish she would stop walking around as if she were moping all the time. She made a few good
moves in terms of decisions around the idol. These moves were spotlighted. She was given a reprieve by Coach which may lead to her win or at least longevity.
Still, she seems somewhat needy and high maintenance. Is that something that she will grow upon? (like how Kenny grew last season?) This is something we will
have to watch.
She's the first female, possibly ever, that has gotten two CP's in the first two episodes. Both were with visibilities of 4. Still, there is something somewhat shallow about her in terms of emotion. Is she winging it as she goes? She said that she was on the verge of quitting on the way up. Candace made a major grin to that. Are we supposed to be seeing her as a nervous potential quitter? Or are we supposed to watch her grow as the season progresses into a major strategist with less emotion than Sugar. There have been males who have won who we were supposed to see as major players and actually just got lucky by being on a dominating tribe and having a good alliance (ehem, Todd and Earl). The real test for Sierra is how she's portrayed when she's not outcast by her tribe and not on the chopping block. The thing is that edgically she's been so strong that she can easily go two episodes by being UTR1 or 2 and have even better of an edit that Parvati or Bob got. Anything other than being INV or OTTN will still put her at most people's #1's. |
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I LUV TIJUANA |
Episode Two | ||
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JALAPAO
Joe- UTR2 JT- MORP2 Sandy- MOR2 - A combination of OTT and UTR. Spencer- MOR3 - Narrator of Jalapao. Stephen- CPP4- The only complex edit I saw on the whole Jalapao tribe this week. Sydney- UTR1 Taj- MORP4 - I don't really see what makes her edit this week complex. Maybe it's just me. TIMBIRA Ben- MORN4- I don't see CP or OTT fitting him appropriately this week. He wasn't as excessive or overbearing as he was episode one. Brendan- CP5- Probably the most fitting rating for him this week. Candace- OTTN4 Debbie- UTR2 Erinn- MOR2- By definition, MOR is the combination of UTR and CP. As flf said, her comments at TC gave her complexity. Jerry- UTR2 Sierra- CPP4- Same rating as last week. Tyson- MOR3 |
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cindidindi76 |
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Jedijake wrote: Yes, it's true. |
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Katy Carney |
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Why is Joe UTR2 and Sydney UTR1?
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ncassaro |
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I don't get Joe as UTR2 either... but it doesn't really matter as they will both need spectacular episode 3s to stay in it.
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unduli clone |
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No time to go into everything, but here are my finalized ratings after a second viewing... Brendan - CPP5 Candace - MORN5 Coach - CPN4 Merhag - UTR2 Erinn - UTR2 Jerry - UTR2 Sierra - MORP4 Tyson - MOR2 Joe - UTR1 JT - OTTP2 Sandy - UTR2 Spencer - MOR2 Stephen - CPP3 Sydney - UTR1 Taj - CPP4 The fact that Jalapao got the post-TC scene, the post-intro scene, and a post-IC scene is very telling. Tyson was out of the action but still got a post-IC confessional and lots of insight into the vote. Don't discredit Erinn - lots of reaction shots. Looking Great: Tyson, Stephen Not Too Shabby: JT, Spencer, Sierra Not Likely: Taj, Jerry Not Happening: Brendan, Coach, Merhag, Erinn, Joe, Sandy, Sydney |
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