Question: When did Ben exile Widmore? in Lost Forum

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Question: When did Ben exile Widmore?

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Mel webb	Question: When did Ben exile Widmore?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 3 (03/13/09 11:55 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The spontaneous rally will begin at 1:45. Remove this ad If this has already been discussed, go ahead and lock this, but I can't figure out when or how the exile of Widmore could have happened. I mean it had to have been decades before and that would make Ben a kid or not even born, right. So this means that Ben has been jumping around in time as well? But if he performed a coup to get rid of Widmore in order to become the new leader, that would have taken alot of time right? Months or years even. So he would have had to live in the past for extended periods of time and then would have had to jump to the present for extended periods of time to be the leader now too. I'm very confused. It's like he's living more than one lifetime. Kind of like Richard alpert.
Screerider		#1	[-]
Posts: 24034 (03/13/09 12:24 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Right after the purge, I'd think. They'd want to hide the Island from Dharma, so they gotta move the Island. Somehow, Ben tricks Others' Leader Widmore into doing the donkey, making way for Ben to take over.
Hostile6		#2	[-]
Posts: 1002 (03/13/09 01:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Screerider wrote: Right after the purge, I'd think. They'd want to hide the Island from Dharma, so they gotta move the Island. Somehow, Ben tricks Others' Leader Widmore into doing the donkey, making way for Ben to take over. That's what I was thinking, but what about the dharma cargo drop?
phantomkp		#3	[-]
Posts: 564 (03/13/09 01:39 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The purge was in the 90's though. Desmond was having arguments with Widmore about Penny in the real world in 1996. I can't believe Widmore being around for only a couple years before that. It seems he's had his high level job a long time. It's seems he's been trying to get back on the island for a long time. It seems Penny has known her father more than just a couple years too :p I'm guessing Widmore got bumped off in the 60's or so. Which would indicate Ben time travelling at some point if it was indeed him who did the exiling. Last Edited By: phantomkp 03/13/09 01:43 PM. Edited 2 times.
Mel webb		#4	[-]
Posts: 4 (03/13/09 01:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Phantomkp said: "I'm guessing Widmore got bumped off in the 60's or so. Which would indicate Ben time travelling at some point if it was indeed him who did the exiling. " Exactly, Widmore probably lived most if not all of Penny's life off island so that would also equal most of Ben's natural life. He's up to way more crap than I even realized before. It's like he's living 2 lives in 2 timelines.
phantomkp		#5	[-]
Posts: 565 (03/13/09 01:49 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hostile6 wrote: Screerider wrote: Right after the purge, I'd think. They'd want to hide the Island from Dharma, so they gotta move the Island. Somehow, Ben tricks Others' Leader Widmore into doing the donkey, making way for Ben to take over. That's what I was thinking, but what about the dharma cargo drop? Some theorize the Dharma cargo drops were made before Dharma dismantled...sometime in the 80's, early 90's? The reason they were still dropping in 2004 is because of the angle of entry into the Island. We all know there is a specific heading into the island where the time difference gets smaller and smaller (Faraday did that payload drop test and got it to a point where i think it was 30 minutes later than it was supposed to get there.) So if Dharma was approaching their drops way off that mark, it conceivably could have taken years to receive it. The fact that all the stuff in that cargo was non perishable, means it could have been sent in 1985 but wouldnt make any difference if Hugo ate it in 2004.
Screerider		#6	[-]
Posts: 24039 (03/13/09 01:50 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hostile6 wrote: That's what I was thinking, but what about the dharma cargo drop? Time-travel. Time-traveling Ben... he can still meet himself! Orrrrr... Penny was on the Island! Nah... Or Widmore was lying about Ben tricking him off the Island... Or the donkey wheel dumped Widmore off in the past... <- Going with this one, for now... Last Edited By: Screerider 03/13/09 02:23 PM. Edited 5 times.
phantomkp		#7	[-]
Posts: 566 (03/13/09 01:50 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Mel webb wrote: Phantomkp said: "I'm guessing Widmore got bumped off in the 60's or so. Which would indicate Ben time travelling at some point if it was indeed him who did the exiling. " Exactly, Widmore probably lived most if not all of Penny's life off island so that would also equal most of Ben's natural life. He's up to way more crap than I even realized before. It's like he's living 2 lives in 2 timelines. Or, he will skip into the past at some point into the future (like the losties are) and meet up with younger Widmore. Or, hes already dont that time skipping. Maybe they did move the island after the purge, which caused Ben to skip around for a bit and meet up with yound Widmore?
WiscBadger95		#8	[-]
Posts: 13484 (03/13/09 02:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	phantomkp wrote: The purge was in the 90's though. We don't know that for sure. That presumption is based on one piece of evidence -- Ghost Horace telling John Locke (in a dream, no less) that he'd "been dead for 12 years." But: Where was the Island in time when Locke had that dream? Where was Horace in time in Locke's dream? Last Edited By: WiscBadger95 03/13/09 02:32 PM. Edited 1 times.
cindidindi76		#9	[-]
Posts: 16114 (03/13/09 02:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thanks Wisc, I was trying to remember when we were told that the purge happened in the 90's, and I couldn't remember it because it didn't happen lol.
Hostile6		#10	[-]
Posts: 1003 (03/13/09 03:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The spontaneous rally will begin at 1:45. Remove this ad phantomkp wrote: Hostile6 wrote: Screerider wrote: Right after the purge, I'd think. They'd want to hide the Island from Dharma, so they gotta move the Island. Somehow, Ben tricks Others' Leader Widmore into doing the donkey, making way for Ben to take over. That's what I was thinking, but what about the dharma cargo drop? Some theorize the Dharma cargo drops were made before Dharma dismantled...sometime in the 80's, early 90's? The reason they were still dropping in 2004 is because of the angle of entry into the Island. We all know there is a specific heading into the island where the time difference gets smaller and smaller (Faraday did that payload drop test and got it to a point where i think it was 30 minutes later than it was supposed to get there.) So if Dharma was approaching their drops way off that mark, it conceivably could have taken years to receive it. The fact that all the stuff in that cargo was non perishable, means it could have been sent in 1985 but wouldnt make any difference if Hugo ate it in 2004. Except it wasn't all non perishable... For example, the ranch dressing composite had a 7 year shelf life (other foods had expiration dates too). Also, the heading doesn't make the time difference smaller and smaller... The island is just outside of time. Where you get that is beyond me. Desmond couldn't leave and always sailed towards the island because he didn't know the heading. It's the way in and and out. Anyway, the food is probably just a dues ex machina to get them food and I'm reading to much into it. As for the topic itself. Widmore was 17 in 1954. He said he lead the others for 30 years. Assuming he took over at 17, he was leader until '84. But that's a big leap, he could of been recruited as a child, much like John was (since Richard said they find the leaders from an early age). So, if he was leader at a young age (assuming), and lead for 30 years, he could be exiled in the mid-to-late 70's. We know that Chang was still filming the orientation videos anywhere from 74-77 (we see this during the premire). Perhaps the incident is Widmore moving the island and that orientation film gets made later. So it's possible we'll get to see it this season. Maybe Widmore will get a centric episode. Then again, who says he's even telling the truth? Last Edited By: Hostile6 03/13/09 03:18 PM. Edited 3 times.
Screerider		#11	[-]
Posts: 24042 (03/13/09 03:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Lostpedia has the Purge being "at 4 P.M. on December 19, 1992" Ben did mention it wasn't completely his decision, but maybe that was part Jacob, rather than Widmore?
WiscBadger95		#12	[-]
Posts: 13487 (03/13/09 03:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Screerider wrote: Lostpedia has the Purge being "at 4 P.M. on December 19, 1992" Ben did mention it wasn't completely his decision, but maybe that was part Jacob, rather than Widmore? See my post, above. And also keep in mind that Lostpedia is not canon.
Arec49		#13	[-]
Posts: 6 (03/13/09 03:27 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	My bet is that it happens in the future. If you flash back a long time ago when Ben got off the Island and went and found Whidmore: "Are you hear to kill me Ben?" "You know I can't do that." 1) Why not? 2) How would he "know" that he can't? Answer: because it happens in the future, and they know that if he had then something he had gone back to do (in the future) would not have been done already.
Screerider		#14	[-]
Posts: 24044 (03/13/09 03:49 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	WiscBadger95 wrote: And also keep in mind that Lostpedia is not canon. It's always on my mind... The funny thing about that Dharma-drop is that Kelvin and Desmond seemed to still be antipating it as well, yeah? We know Desmond wasn't part of the DI, but was Kelvin also similary high-jacked into service or was he a true DI-er? Back to Widmore... apparently he only began funding Faraday's time experiments in 1994, so that links fairly well with a 1992-ish donkey whirl. As for Penny... the Others did have lives Off-Island as well. Widmore probably came and went at will. (Which begs the question why didn't Widmore start funding Off-Island time-travel research back in the 50's? Maybe just keeping an eye on DI's efforts?) fixing Kelvin for Radzinkski... Last Edited By: Screerider 03/13/09 03:57 PM. Edited 2 times.
pussycow		#15	[-]
Posts: 4529 (03/13/09 04:14 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hostile6 wrote: phantomkp wrote: Hostile6 wrote: Screerider wrote: Right after the purge, I'd think. They'd want to hide the Island from Dharma, so they gotta move the Island. Somehow, Ben tricks Others' Leader Widmore into doing the donkey, making way for Ben to take over. That's what I was thinking, but what about the dharma cargo drop? Some theorize the Dharma cargo drops were made before Dharma dismantled...sometime in the 80's, early 90's? The reason they were still dropping in 2004 is because of the angle of entry into the Island. We all know there is a specific heading into the island where the time difference gets smaller and smaller (Faraday did that payload drop test and got it to a point where i think it was 30 minutes later than it was supposed to get there.) So if Dharma was approaching their drops way off that mark, it conceivably could have taken years to receive it. The fact that all the stuff in that cargo was non perishable, means it could have been sent in 1985 but wouldnt make any difference if Hugo ate it in 2004. Except it wasn't all non perishable... For example, the ranch dressing composite had a 7 year shelf life (other foods had expiration dates too). Also, the heading doesn't make the time difference smaller and smaller... The island is just outside of time. Where you get that is beyond me. Desmond couldn't leave and always sailed towards the island because he didn't know the heading. It's the way in and and out. Anyway, the food is probably just a dues ex machina to get them food and I'm reading to much into it. It doesn't matter if it is perishable or not. It would have taken the same amount of time as always to get to the island. It just would have showed up in a different time.
phantomkp		#16	[-]
Posts: 570 (03/13/09 04:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	cindidindi76 wrote: Thanks Wisc, I was trying to remember when we were told that the purge happened in the 90's, and I couldn't remember it because it didn't happen lol. No, it was never said..but it makes sense to be the late 80's early 90's. Makail was recruited by Ben onto the island in 1993 (after he left the Gulf War)...so the purge would have happened before 1993. If you think it happened before 1987, then Ben would have been in his early 20's when he killed everyone in Dharma. Did he look like he was in his early 20's?? :P Unless you people think the purge happened in the late 90's?? Or right before flight 815 crashed??
phantomkp		#17	[-]
Posts: 571 (03/13/09 04:22 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Screerider wrote: Or the donkey wheel dumped Widmore off in the past... <- Going with this one, for now... That still wouldnt make sense though. Lets say Widmore got bumped off after the purge...since 1954 he would have aged about 40 years..then got kicked off enough into the past into the real world to get a firm placement into a high level job, have Penny, pine to be back on the island after such a long exile,etc...thats even more decades added onto him. He doesnt look that old. Unless you think that Widmore didnt age until he got kicked off? I dont think hes like Richard :P
Screerider		#18	[-]
Posts: 24046 (03/13/09 04:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	With that last post of mine, I changed my mind, for now...
phantomkp		#19	[-]
Posts: 572 (03/13/09 04:36 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Arec49 wrote: My bet is that it happens in the future. If you flash back a long time ago when Ben got off the Island and went and found Whidmore: "Are you hear to kill me Ben?" "You know I can't do that." 1) Why not? 2) How would he "know" that he can't? Answer: because it happens in the future, and they know that if he had then something he had gone back to do (in the future) would not have been done already. Good point. Which would lend credence to the idea that both Ben and Widmore have histories interacting with each others future selves to some degree?...which would be why Ben cant kill Widmore and vice-versa...cause they both have to be alive in the future at some point to time travel to a specific past and do something they were supposed to. (in the same vein Michael couldnt die off the island) Interesting theory, and would help explain why Ben couldnt/wouldnt kill Widmore. Last Edited By: phantomkp 03/13/09 04:41 PM. Edited 1 times.
cindidindi76		#20	[-]
Posts: 16128 (03/13/09 05:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The spontaneous rally will begin at 1:45. Remove this ad phantomkp wrote: cindidindi76 wrote: Thanks Wisc, I was trying to remember when we were told that the purge happened in the 90's, and I couldn't remember it because it didn't happen lol. No, it was never said..but it makes sense to be the late 80's early 90's. Makail was recruited by Ben onto the island in 1993 (after he left the Gulf War)...so the purge would have happened before 1993. If you think it happened before 1987, then Ben would have been in his early 20's when he killed everyone in Dharma. Did he look like he was in his early 20's?? :P Unless you people think the purge happened in the late 90's?? Or right before flight 815 crashed?? Holy fuck, do you have to argue with everything?! I didn't say I didn't think that was when it happened, I simply said I didn't remember it being stated on the show, and it wasn't.

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Question: When did Ben exile Widmore?

Question: When did Ben exile Widmore?