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Cuauhtemoc Gilmore |
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DANIELLEOWNAGE!!!
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King Lord |
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18. Jaime and Peih-Gee throw the first immunity challenge after the tribal swap (China)
Rebuttal: I don't know why some people still think this was a bad move. Recall the situation: Before the swap, Zhan Hu were getting creamed in the challenges, to the point where the numbers were 7-5 against them. The swap gave Zhan Hu the two strongest members of Fei Long, James and Aaron. At this point, Jaime and Peih-Gee had two choices: (A) form a new alliance with James and Aaron, or (B) throw the challenges to get rid of them. Option A was impossible, because both James and Aaron had every intention of jumping back to Fei Long as soon as the tribes merged, regardless of any promises Jaime/Peih-Gee made to them, and the two ladies knew this. So by process of elimination, they had to go for option B. Yes, option B assumed that the merge happened at ten players left, that the orignal tribal alliances would be unbreakable, and that Frosti and Sherea would stay loyal to Zhan Hu. But all of these were reasonable assumptions to make, based on precedent and on all the information available at that point. Basically, Zhan Hu was in a situation where a lot had to go right for any of them to have a chance to win: the merge has to happen at 10, they had to get all five members to the merge, all five had to stick together, and they had win the tiebreaker. Throwing the challenge was making the best of a bad situation. Bottom line: Peih-Gee and (mostly) Jaime did botch the execution of the plan (i.e., not briefing Erik, being so obvious, admitting it at TC, not following through with James), but the plan itself was solid, as there was no viable alternative. |
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Thailandsurvivor |
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I've never heard anyone say that was a bad move.
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colleenlover |
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Yeah, did anyone think that was a bad move, other than the editing of the show because it didn't work out down the line and it was just story justifying.
It was certainly the right move -and one of the worst twist ever for someone like Aaron or James- but I don't think production would get the unfairness.
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JackSparrowBauer |
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I thought that that was accepted as a good move...
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Pulau Tiga |
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Nah, there are certainly people who have bashed Jaime and PG for their plan. I remember there being a debate about it in Spec? Anyway, throwing the challenges
was smart. Trusting James was not.
Jan should have forced the tie at F4. Everyone was screwed by the combination of Terry's HII and IC streak in EI. |
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CSCin3D |
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Yeah, there should be absolutely no debate about whether the PG/Jaime move was good or not. It deffo was the ONLY thing to do. In fact, I think they actually
proved they were stupid next episode by not throwing it (even though if they did they would have been idolled, but they didn't know this so they got
lucky).
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ncassaro |
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#17. Cindy not giving the cars away and getting voted out?
As for the swap being hella unfair to Aaron and James, I agree, but the tribes in China were way too uneven. |
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chapera rocks |
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Yeah, people definitely bashed Jaime/Peih-Gee. I defended them a lot. Panurge comes to mind.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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That move was what made me start the Peih-Geesus Shrine. How the hell she didn't have a love thread until episode 5...I have no idea.
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Quiddity |
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I recall us having long, drawn out, Ravu-style debates over that in LTS, but I recall it being more over bashing the producers about what a horrible twist it
was than bashing those two. Panurge as mentioned seemed to bash them to death, but outside of him, I think it was pretty much universally accepted as a great
move, and just a bad twist. I didn't have and continue to not have a problem with the producers over the twist, I don't think the producers ever
expected what happened to happen. Should they not have done it? Yeah, in hindsight. By no means did they do it to purposely get rid of strong people like
Aaron or James.
Hopefully #17 and defending Cindy not giving away the cars. Great list already, that'll make it even greater. |
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King Lord |
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Some of you are still insisting that Jan should have forced the tie at F4. I'll try to make my point about Jan's non-blunder by comparing her situation to that of someone who I think did make a blunder by not forcing a tie, Jenna Lewis in All-Stars F4. If Jenna voted with Rupert, there were three possible outcomes (as far as we know):
The basic question Jenna had to ask herself was: does the gamble's potential payoff outweigh the potential cost? In this case, the answer was yes, because of the guaranteed F2 spot if Rob goes. Contrast that with Jan's situation; if she voted with Helen, these were the outcomes:
So in this case, the gamble's potential payoff doesn't outweigh the cost. Why risk going home yourself to save someone who has no strategic interest in taking you to the finals? That would be dumb, and it's the reason I don't consider Jan's move a blunder. No. 17 will be up soon.
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Pulau Tiga |
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King Lord wrote:Where she would be unable to win. She needed Rob in the game. Amber winning Immunity at Final 4 was disastrous. |
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Katy Carney |
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The Peih Gee/Jaime throwing the challenge thing was a no brainer. The producers practically begged them to with that twist anyway.
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Mikester |
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I think Lex & the other Borans voting out Kelly will make this list. It was clearly a stupid move, but in the end it really didn't make a difference
for them.
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Pulau Tiga |
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Mikester wrote:Just because they lucked out doesn't mean it wasn't completely idiotic. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Well, it might've been a good move for Brandon, at least.
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Mikester |
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Pulau Tiga wrote:Isn't that the point of this thread? Moves that were really terrible but ended up not hurting the people who made them? Maybe I just don't get this thread. Yeah, Lex targeting Kelly was stupid (and Brandon voting her out was even stupider) but Lex & the Borans ended up as the f4, anyway. |
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Quiddity |
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Mikester wrote: It was a blunder though. Just like Timbira is blundering its way through a 6-3 advantage right now. They only lucked out because the other side made an even bigger blunder at F8 when they had the game in the palm of their hands. Where she would be unable to win. She needed Rob in the game. Amber winning Immunity at Final 4 was disastrous. Couldn't she have beaten Amber though? Amber definately gets Rob and Shii Ann's votes. Jenna could conceivably get Lex, Kathy, Tom, Alicia and Rupert's votes. Admittingly not a season I like to think back on ;) Isn't that the point of this thread? Moves that were really terrible but ended up not hurting the people who made them? Maybe I just don't get this thread. I think the point of the thread is moves that are bashed all the time that really weren't bad moves, or perhaps just don't deserve all the scrutiny. So far all have definately fit that category. Completely different than a dumb ass move that simply didn't harm the people because others were even dumber. |
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King Lord |
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17. Cindy keeps the car for herself at the final reward challenge (Guatemala)
Convential Wisdom: Cindy should not have been so selfish and let the other contestants receive cars. Rebuttal: First of all, the challenge twist itself was unfair, in that it wasn't revealed until after the challenge was over (if I recall correctly). If it has been revealed from the outset, that would give a smart player a chance to throw the challenge. Instead, no matter how smart a player was, they would be a potential target regardless of their decision: if they chose to keep the car, they'd be targeted as selfish; if they chose to share the car, they'd be targeted as a threat in the F2. Strategically, winning the challenge would be a double-bind disaster, and there was no way Cindy could have prepared for it. Furthermore, even if the challenge never happened, I'm willing to wager that, absent an IC win, Cindy would have still been voted out because she was a threat to Rafe, and Rafe (prior to his F4 blunder; yes, I consider it a blunder) was in complete control of the game. Getting Cindy out was crucial for Rafe, not only because Cindy was getting ready to target him anyway, but also because Stephenie would then be forced to betray yet another of her fantards, making her an even bigger F2 goat. The reward challenge only gave Rafe a convenient excuse to do what he was probably going to do anyway. Bottom Line: Rafe's strategic skill, and Stephenie's (and Lydia's) strategic stupidity would have cost Cindy the game no matter what she decided. I'm sick of people acting like the car made any difference.
Last Edited By: King Lord
05/06/09 7:44 PM.
Edited 4 times.
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