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Thailandsurvivor wrote:

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Kirblar wrote:

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He played an above-average game with very weak opposition.

Although this is probably the first season I can recall where the F3 really were the 3 best players in the game.

Tyson left 8th.

Erinn is getting nowhere near enough credit from her detractors (and way too much from her fantards), but if she was really a great player, she would have talked to Taj and voted for Stephen at the final 4. She deserves props for realizing her position, flipping to Pao, helping take out Tyson, and making the final three. She did almost everything she could since there were people willing to throw their game away than work with people they didn't like (Sierra final 7, Coach final 5), but her social game sucked. It's hard to really judge her because of the limited options. If Coach, Debbie, and Sierra were willing to bring back Timbira, I have a strange feeling that Erinn wouldn't go for it. If she did, she is a great player for sure. If she didn't, then she'd be a player of Denise levels.

In an interview she said that she would probably NOT have flipped over BECAUSE she felt like they would vote her out 4th and if she was looking at 4th either way, she'd rather be with the Paos than with the Timbiras ... plus she was already in deeper with Stephen than any of us realized. However, her reasoning is sound ... if she thought she was 4th, then why not stick with the Paos instead of the loose cannons?

Now what she would have done if Sierra had promised her something better than final 4, we don't know.

Regarding Taj, I agree that Erinn should have approached Taj at final 4 ... before. Now I'm not so sure. Neither of them trusted each other enough to vote with each other, and now we know Taj was hell bent on a Pao final 3. Erinn had a better shot at beating Stephen in the final 2 than Taj, not to mention she was one of Stephen's closest allies so she knew they would both take each other. And she had a card to play if JT won immunity, it just so happens that he didn't care what Stephen was doing behind his back.

So at F4, JT has to win TWO ICs, because Stephen has F2 deal with both Erinn and Taj.

Funny I've never heard you piss on Jenna's game since she had to win both final immunities. At least JT knew in advance that he'd be a target in the end game and eliminated his competition threats.

Stephen has said it himself, JT and he made decisions very much together. The only edge Stephen had was that he worked on the people within his alliance better, which JT wasn't going to be able to do anyway given how much he was loved and how no one would want to go to the end with him. And to play the devil's advocate, Stephen's multiple alliances could have easily screwed him over, and almost did given that Taj had almost figured him out and told JT about how Stephen talked about voting him off. If JT weren't so loyal, Stephen would have been screwed over. JT still worked over the C/D/T alliance and won all their votes. He was just as much of a strategic force as Stephen was, and he ended up playing Stephen in the final tribal like a fiddle.

In fact, Stephen made a huge strategic blunder by keeping JT in so long. He knew towards the end, JT would win all the immunities, he even said on the show that JT would win the second to last IC (final 4) because it was always physical. He should have taken out JT at final 6. Then Debbie/Coach.

As for JT's win ... yeah, 9/10 he probably wouldn't have given his merger circumstances. But I guess you could argue ... chicken or the egg? Was JT's social game so good that he got Timbira to want him to win? Or were they just a special case of morons? One things for sure, Pao did a great job of fracturing Timbira. I think Stephen made far bigger blunder, strategically, than JT ever did (taking JT/Taj on the reward, exiling Erinn, and leaving Coach/Debbie/Sierra at camp). I would also argue that JT would make the end game almost every time because he has the strategy, social, and decent physical.

JT's definitely one of the best, if not the best winners ever, from a game stand point. I hated his win though, it was way too predictable.

SwineForkbeard wrote:

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Thailandsurvivor wrote:

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And craig, stop making fucking comparisons. Every season is it's own.

X

X

Thailandsurvivor wrote:

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Kirblar wrote:

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She covered this in the Survivor talk interview- she couldn't because Taj would have run to JT/Steve immediately and ruined it for her. (Which Taj confirmed- she was sitting right next to her.)

So what? JT and Stephen hear this from Taj, how does that make her any less of a threat? Any less likable? Any less chance of beating them in the finals?

Why risk getting rid of the only person she could have a chance at beating in favour of someone who she (1) couldn't beat, (2) couldn't trust. She knew Stephen was taking her to the finals. She thought JT would as well, especially given the fact that if he won the challenge, she knew she could tattle on Stephen.

Now I'm pissed that JT won the final 4 immunity challenge. Say Stephen won ... how amazing would this have been ...

First vote ... ERINN

Second vote ... TAJ

Third vote ... JT

Fourth vote ... JT

Surprise! That would be amazing (and the first time ever that there was more than 2 different votes at the final 4 tribal council).

Or if Erinn wins, JT still goes.

Given Taj's determination to play for a Jal 3 and Coach's dermination to get JT into the final, this would have been risky. It requires 100% trust in Erinn not to decide that Debbie etc is a better F2 opponent than him, and a risk that Coach or Debbie could win the last two ICs.

Stephen has said he trusted Taj completely until the final 4 when she figured him out.

Stephen has said he and Erinn were very close strategically, and she'd easily jump on a key opportunity that would ease her way to the end.

Debbie - Coach
JT - Debbie
Coach - Taj

Stephen/Erinn - JT

All they'd need was Taj.

People always fault the Comeback winners for relying on ICs. I'm just saying JT is in the same boat. He didn't have any more strategic control at F4 than Jenna.

JT would have been in a bad position at final 4 regardless, given how players like him are targeted at the point anyway. At least he had the strategic foresight to eliminate all competition threats leaving the (arguably) least adept challenge performers.