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JT's Gameplay - Good but not Great

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chad6		#61	[-]
Posts: 3470 (05/21/09 3:14 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think Debbie played a good game at all. She was never really in control if you think about. And she was so unaware of what was really going on. She is the one that thought that JT/Stephen were going to take her to the final four AFTER they blindsided her closest ally and betrayed her. Even Sierra spelled it out for her and she didn't get it. She was delusional, not a good player. I hate Corinne, but at least she understood she was on the outs, and if there actually was a 10 person merge she had a good shot at having power and making it to the end. The same can't be said for Debbie.
chapera rocks		#62	[-]
Posts: 11158 (05/21/09 8:06 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	This is the only time I will ever, in any way, defend Corinne. She wasn't a good player, and had a shit social game, but she was definitely a better player than Debbie. She was good enough to get into a majority alliance and actually try to win, and never wanted the opposition to win. Debbie was 100% follower of Tyson until he got voted out. She showed a moment of rational thought before giving in and playing bitch to Stephen and JT, which was a crappy strategy given that (1) they had blindsided so many people and (2) everyone in the game was using that strategy, and at an earlier point.
The Marquesan Godfather		#63	[-]
Posts: 11418 (05/21/09 8:24 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	JT deserved to win. Sorry he has a penis, craig, but it is what it is.
Kirblar		#64	[-]
Posts: 7894 (05/21/09 9:31 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Debbie spelled out EXACTLY what she needed to do at F7 in a confessional, then proceeded to not do it because she absolutely hated Sierra. If that's not the mark of a bad player, I don't know what is.
XtremeInnovator420		#65	[-]
Posts: 1521 (05/21/09 9:44 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I thought was just the mark of someone who was like....crazy?
TheEasyOne		#66	[-]
Posts: 1660 (05/21/09 10:31 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Emcee Batley wrote: ALL CUTE YOUNG GIRLS ARE THE BEST PLAYERS EVER!!!!! whole hearted agreeance <333 !!!!~@!!!!
chad6		#67	[-]
Posts: 3471 (05/21/09 10:50 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kirblar wrote: Debbie spelled out EXACTLY what she needed to do at F7 in a confessional, then proceeded to not do it because she absolutely hated Sierra. If that's not the mark of a bad player, I don't know what is. X
SPunKeeMonKee		#68	[-]
Posts: 12012 (05/21/09 11:38 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The argument wasn't whether Debbie played a good game or not. I'm just disputing craig's claim that Corinne had a better strategy. I don't think being reviled and treating others like shit is a good way of winning people over. It's all fine and dandy when your alliance has control but you're going to have to depend on others sooner or later. Debbie did tell JT she'd give him immunity but I honestly don't believe she would've done it. She was crafty and that bubbly attitude was a great cover for it. I wouldn't call her a Tyson follower either, she was playing the good cop to his bad cop.
craig		#69	[-]
Posts: 15695 (05/21/09 2:28 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think being reviled and treating others like shit is a good way of winning people over Corinne, like Tyson, tended to reserve a good percentage of her bitchiness for confessionals (aside from T with Sierra and C with S & S). Randy and Crystal made themselves targets because of their outward social game, but Corinne only went home because Bob won immunity. So Corinne is a flawed social player, and not a social disaster.
Fart Party		#70	[-]
Posts: 246 (05/21/09 2:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think Debbie is capable of a good social game, but blew her advantage just coasting with whatever majority seemed to be in town. If she'd put more effort into strategy she wouldn't have been walking ass backwards into looking for JT and Stephen's help later on, but would have been trying to take them out. She's an interesting personality though and it would be cool to see her on All-Stars, if there's room.
craig		#71	[-]
Posts: 15696 (05/21/09 2:42 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	JT deserved to win. Sorry he has a penis, craig, but it is what it is. Since the jury votes are read, I've accepted that the best 3 players overall this season are: (1) JT (2) Stephen (3) Erinn However, consistency then requires that Fang fans accept the best 3 from Gabon as: (1) Bob (2) Kenny (3) Susie JT and Bob had similar strengths - good social game, and late challenge dominace. Bob won even more ICs than JT, which is impressive considering he is 3 decades older. Bob wasn't the top stategic player of his season, but neither was JT. Bob got help from irrational player Sugar, and JT got similar help from Coach. You can't shit on Bob or Tom W's game because you aren't a fan of theirs, and then proclaim JT one of the best winners ever. You can't elevate failed mastermind Kenny, who didn't make F4, into one of the best ever, and then shit on Stephen who made F2 and would have won if JT didn't go on that IC run. 1 JT 2 Stephen 3 Bob 4 Kenny 5 Susie 6 Erinn
goohst		#72	[-]
Posts: 436 (05/21/09 2:58 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kirblar wrote: Debbie spelled out EXACTLY what she needed to do at F7 in a confessional, then proceeded to not do it because she absolutely hated Sierra. If that's not the mark of a bad player, I don't know what is. That was Sierra's doing, not Debbie's.
Thailandsurvivor		#73	[-]
Posts: 6993 (05/21/09 3:00 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The main difference between JT and Bob is that JT was in power pre merge. He was in control of what happened, and everyone approached him. Bob was the 5th wheel of a shitty alliance. I can definitely shit on Bob's game. Let's see, at the final 10 TC, he said that he made a mistake at the previous tribal council. Susie was sitting right in front of him. Bob won because of a clique who hated the two people who killed their games. Bob won because of a bitter jury. JT won 7-0 because they respected him. Stephen lost not because he didn't play well, not because the jury was bitter. He lost because JT played the best game. Bob was going to give up immunity at the final 6 if Sugar didn't stop him. JT managed to get Brendan, Debbie, Coach, Erinn, and maybe Taj (since she needed to break them up at the final 4) to throw their games away for him. Bob didn't do shit. Sugar just wanted an acting career, so she kept the old likable guy around to make herself look like a hero. Biggest example of Bob being a strategic and social moron. Final 4. He cut off an option by telling Susie to stop talking for no reason. Who knows, there might not have been much of a chance at all of her voting for Sugar, but there was a slight chance. Great players never throw away anything.
craig		#74	[-]
Posts: 15697 (05/21/09 3:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	There is enough in that crique of Bob's strategic game for me to rank him below JT and Stephen. Bob won because of a clique who hated the two people who killed their games. Bob won because of a bitter jury.... Bob was going to give up immunity at the final 6 if Sugar didn't stop him. Bob was a better social player, a better challenge player, and a better provider that the two women sitting next to him. EVERY defeated tribe and alliance votes for loyal members who battle back to reach F2. Jenna - Alex, Heidi Sandra - Rupert, Christa Chris - Sarge, Chad Danni - Brandon, BJ, Gary Susie - Crystal, Kenny, Matty 100% support, and Onions were no different. Fact is, Bob didn't give away the necklace. He had a friend who tipped him off. On the other hand, JT risking becoming Colby 2.0 out of loyalty to his buddy. Yeah, it worked out great, but it wasn't a game move, it was an unnecessary risk. If you fault Bob for COASTING through the premerge game, part of a big allaince that dominated challenges - well, JT COASTED through the postmerge while the dumbest tribe ever imploded. Bob schemed with Corinne or Sugar and won do or die ICs, while JT was taking his buddies on rewards and choosing to eat and not complete (with no real worries). Let Stephen tell him who to boot, stuff his gut at every opportunity. (Hey if Steph S11 got flak so that, JT was twice as bad.) Last Edited By: craig 05/21/09 3:52 PM. Edited 1 times.
SwineForkbeard		#75	[-]
Posts: 2250 (05/21/09 3:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: You can't shit on Bob or Tom W's game because you aren't a fan of theirs, and then proclaim JT one of the best winners ever. You can't elevate failed mastermind Kenny, who didn't make F4, into one of the best ever, and then shit on Stephen who made F2 and would have won if JT didn't go on that IC run. Who are all these strawmen you keep speaking for, and where did you get the idea that anybody who was the least bit impressed with JT's gameplay had to be a Fang fan or shat on Bob or Tom? JT won, Stephen and Erinn lost. Why not just accept it instead of whining and making demands of anybody who thinks he was a worthy winner?
XtremeInnovator420		#76	[-]
Posts: 1524 (05/21/09 3:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sometimes Survivor's not about whether or not you played a better game than someone, but whether you make it seem like you played a better game than someone. I still think Stephen played a better overall game than JT (he certainly didn't deserve to lose 7-0), but JT was better at making it SEEM like he played a superior game. I don't shit on Tom's win at all, I think he was a really good player. Bob...he won because the Onions were bitter douchebags who couldn't admit they got owned by Fang, and because Sugar had been playing most of the game to try and get him and Matty to the F3 so that she could lose to one of them. Not to mention that Bob refused to take responsibility for the very few moves that he DID make, and if Sugar was playing for herself to win, Bob would've been gone at 6 or 4 (or at 8 when Randy went for that matter).
craig		#77	[-]
Posts: 15698 (05/21/09 4:03 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	where did you get the idea that anybody who was the least bit impressed with JT's gameplay had to be a Fang fan or shat on Bob or Tom? I've read enough polls (popularity, game) and enough rank the winner threads to know where they stand with the Sucks majority. Sucks admires mastermind schemers the most. JT seems to be getting a better raction, so I want to test whether it is merely fandon (Jal 3 were popular), or if it has an actual basis in gameplay. If you admire both JT and Bob (like the CBS poll majority), fine, at least you're being consistent.
SurvivorNinja		#78	[-]
Posts: 822 (05/21/09 4:23 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm gonna say first that I though JT was a decent winner. Episode 1 until Episode 12 I was thinking he'd be the worst winner ever and hated the thought of him possibly beating Stephen, Taj or Erinn..but when it happened I accepted it, took it in and realized he was actually not that terrible a winner. Having said that now..I am tired of hearing people say JT played a perfect game on paper by getting all the jury votes and having no votes cast against him. If we're getting technical than to have a "perfect" game you'd also have to have voted correctly for the person who went each time. If i'm not mistaken JT voted to keep Coach at F5 making his "perfect" game only almost perfect. He was decent in challenges but nothing special until Brendan and Tyson (and even Debbie) were gone. He was only all that good on physical challenges also. He was ok at the puzzles/mental challenges but nothing really worth noting. His social game was amazing so I will give him that. Strategically without Stephen he was very much screwed. JT is a smart enough guy but a lot of the gameplay and planning was due to Stephen..so JT was very lucky. He would not have won without Stephen . I'd say JT is about average or just below average in strategy. (i'm giving him the amount of credit most people give Becky). And don't get me started on the amount of Luck he had (so Parv haters (who discout her win based on her luck) who love JT can suck my cock). ETA i'm actually giving JT more credit strategically than most people give Becky. Last Edited By: SurvivorNinja 05/21/09 4:25 PM. Edited 1 times.
Thailandsurvivor		#79	[-]
Posts: 6996 (05/21/09 4:33 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: There is enough in that crique of Bob's strategic game for me to rank him below JT and Stephen. Bob won because of a clique who hated the two people who killed their games. Bob won because of a bitter jury.... Bob was going to give up immunity at the final 6 if Sugar didn't stop him. Bob was a better social player, a better challenge player, and a better provider that the two women sitting next to him. EVERY defeated tribe and alliance votes for loyal members who battle back to reach F2. Jenna - Alex, Heidi Sandra - Rupert, Christa Chris - Sarge, Chad Danni - Brandon, BJ, Gary Susie - Crystal, Kenny, Matty 100% support, and Onions were no different. Fact is, Bob didn't give away the necklace. He had a friend who tipped him off. On the other hand, JT risking becoming Colby 2.0 out of loyalty to his buddy. Yeah, it worked out great, but it wasn't a game move, it was an unnecessary risk. If you fault Bob for COASTING through the premerge game, part of a big allaince that dominated challenges - well, JT COASTED through the postmerge while the dumbest tribe ever imploded. Bob schemed with Corinne or Sugar and won do or die ICs, while JT was taking his buddies on rewards and choosing to eat and not complete (with no real worries). Let Stephen tell him who to boot, stuff his gut at every opportunity. (Hey if Steph S11 got flak so that, JT was twice as bad.) 100% support? Bullshit. Randy despised Bob, but he had less to do with his downfall than the other two.
Thailandsurvivor		#80	[-]
Posts: 6997 (05/21/09 4:36 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: There is enough in that crique of Bob's strategic game for me to rank him below JT and Stephen. Bob won because of a clique who hated the two people who killed their games. Bob won because of a bitter jury.... Bob was going to give up immunity at the final 6 if Sugar didn't stop him. Bob was a better social player, a better challenge player, and a better provider that the two women sitting next to him. EVERY defeated tribe and alliance votes for loyal members who battle back to reach F2. Jenna - Alex, Heidi Sandra - Rupert, Christa Chris - Sarge, Chad Danni - Brandon, BJ, Gary Susie - Crystal, Kenny, Matty 100% support, and Onions were no different. Fact is, Bob didn't give away the necklace. He had a friend who tipped him off. On the other hand, JT risking becoming Colby 2.0 out of loyalty to his buddy. Yeah, it worked out great, but it wasn't a game move, it was an unnecessary risk. If you fault Bob for COASTING through the premerge game, part of a big allaince that dominated challenges - well, JT COASTED through the postmerge while the dumbest tribe ever imploded. Bob schemed with Corinne or Sugar and won do or die ICs, while JT was taking his buddies on rewards and choosing to eat and not complete (with no real worries). Let Stephen tell him who to boot, stuff his gut at every opportunity. (Hey if Steph S11 got flak so that, JT was twice as bad.) 100% support? Bullshit. Randy despised Bob, but he had less to do with his downfall than the other two.

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