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ThrowMeGabon |
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You have to be physically strong enough to make it through pre-merge unless your tribe goes on a winning streak, but not so physically strong that you die in
the penis massacre at merge, unless you plan on winning back to back challenges. Strong allies seemed like a trump card until season 3's swap, where
adaptability became the #1 skill. No matter what, this is social interaction, not golf. Unpredictable luck will always be involved.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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18. Sandra (She's weaker and a woman, which automatically puts a target on her back. Also, she'd be a minority tribe member which also automatically
sets her apart from the others. She'd have the biggest uphill battle in any other season.)
17. Todd (He's scrawny and he's a student of the game, which means he wouldn't be helping in challenges, and he also would be viewed as a schemer and a threat in any other season.) 16. Tina (She's just not cut out for a survival situation, and in other seasons, she would be booted early just for being weaker and older and a woman.) 15. Jenna (She has some strength, but her win didn't show her using the same social finesse of inoffensiveness of someone like Parvati or Amanda. Odds are, in a non-gender divided season, she would be targetted early on as a weakness around camp.) 14. Bob (No strategy, but at least he had strength and worked hard around camp. Still, his age puts a target on his back no matter how strong he is.) 13. Richard (He's a strong guy and he's arrogant and willing to take on a leadership role. That puts an automatic target on his back over other players.) 12. Aras (He's also physically strong, but might be viewed as naive to keep him around longer than someone like Richard. Still, his immaturity would put a target on his back sooner rather than later.) 11. J.T. (J.T. is a nice guy, but he's too strong, and in a season where everyone plays for themselves, he would have many more people gunning for him as a physical threat than he did.) 10. Tom (Tom's in a similar situation to J.T., but I think him being able to play the NYC firefighter card might be more beneficial in terms of getting people to maybe keep him around a little more. Plus he could probably kick J.T.'s ass in a challenge.) 9. Amber (She's only gone as far as her closest ally carries her, and since she has a knack for teaming up with the biggest bitch/asshole in the cast, generally that person will get targetted and Amber will follow shortly thereafter.) 8. Brian (He's more than likely to make it far because he's good at sweet-talking, but eventually his strength will catch up to him and people will view him as a threat, especially since he tries to play without emotion, which is needed sometimes.) 7. Parvati (She's strong enough to avoid that early boot like other women might get, and more social than someone like Jenna, but Parvati's problem comes from her somewhat clique-ish attitude which could definitely rub people the wrong way and get her targetted.) 6. Ethan (These top six are players I think could make the final episode nine times out of ten, and choosing between them is difficult. Ethan ranks lowest because he's a physical threat and a threat in terms of being the type of player who people would be afraid to face on the jury.) 5. Yul (A young, muscular guy is going to be targetted more often than not just because of what kind of player he APPEARS to be, and Yul has the added problem of people thinking that, because he's Asian, he's a mental threat as well. Still has a good shot of going deep in any season though.) 4. Chris (He's able to appear sensative enough, but there is always the possibility of him pissing people off and either getting voted out due to spite, or losing a jury vote because of his attitude towards the people he's sent out of the game.) 3. Vecepia (These top three are EXTREMELY hard to choose between, but I went with Vee first because she has the slight possibility of being targetted for being older, or for being outcast due to her race. She's very adaptable though and strong, so she could go far in most seasons.) 2. Danni (As Jenna, Amber and Parvati have shown, it is very easy to make it far in the game by being a young, semi-athletic girl. Danni adds onto that by also being kind and being a leader without sticking her neck out into the line of fire. But her being a woman automatically puts her at a disadvantage against most men in the game, given the sexist nature of the jury.) 1. Earl (If a guy can never watch a show and get recruited off the street, only to go from being on a losing team to winning the game unanimously, he's probably gonna do well in any situation you choose to put him in. Earl's strong without being viewed as a physical threat. He's compassionate and nice without being viewed as a jury threat. He's basically great for going deep in the game time after time after time.) |
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PrettyGoodYear1988 |
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I agree. Earl would do well on any season. I think he's often underrated simply because people don't like Fiji. The guy played extremely well,
though.
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ilovekelly752 |
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Kitty Pryde1 wrote:He held his own in the challenges. He even purposely aligned with Courtney for the sole reason that he wouldn't be seen as weak in challenges, and it worked. Also, he was seen as a schemer and a threat in China. He was just smart enough to outplay everyone who tried to go against him. Why would any season be different? I would think that would put Richard and Brian a whole lot lower on the list since they didn't have the strategic threats Todd had. No one even really tried to go against those two, except one weak attempt against Richard which was thwarted by an alphabet voting strategy. How would that have happpened in any other season? It's not like how Todd had people going against him, but outwitted all of those people. How is Chris so high? In any other season, he would've been out first because he was the weakest person in the challenges. There's a reason 4/9 people wanted him out first. If there weren't five older people and four younger people, which in most seasons there isn't, Chris would've been out first. With Yul and Earl, not every season has hidden immunity idols. That's all I really need to say about that. I agree with Danni being so high, but I would definitely put her behind Todd. I think Todd is one of the few winners who fits every category someone was talking about earlier, that he's not too weak or too strong, he's a great strategist, he doesn't have a personality that would turn people against him, and he knew how to get along with anyone. He was also one of the few winners who was screwed by a twist and still ended up winning. That's even further proof of how he can overcome anything that would happen in any other season.
Last Edited By: ilovekelly752
10/30/09 3:31 PM.
Edited 3 times.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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ilovekelly752 wrote:Todd did not hold his own in challenges. He was pathetic, but he had Courtney around to make him look less pathetic. In any other season, Courtney would've been booted after that first challenge and Todd would still be in danger. And the extremely mismatched tribes were a major reason why Todd succeeded. James and Aaron and Jean-Robert and Denise benefitted Fei Long in such a physical season. He was seen as a schemer and a threat by ONE person, who happened to fall into the minority due to those unbalanced tribes. No one ever bothered targetting Todd because everyone in that season was a follower, except Peih-Gee. Richard had similar circumstances, but he had the physical ability to get him further in a season based solely on that physical ability. As for Chris, first off, only 3 people wanted him gone. Brady voted for Rory. And him being the weakest was only in a challenge involving a balance beam. Physically, he was still strong, and in a season where there was no male/female split, he would've been even safer at that first tribal council. He survived the first tribal council because he proactively played to save himself in spite of people targetting him due to a poor performance in that challenge. Todd IS weak and was fortunately to be on a tribe with two women weaker than himself, AND with four larger players that could outstrip the more physically fit players on the other side via sheer side. He's also fortunate to have an entire cast that was either followers or self-destructive. Just look at Tocantins, where Spencer, a physically strong player, was targetted just because it became known that he was a huge fan of the show. Todd is like that without any of the drawbacks to voting out a strong player. |
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ilovekelly752 |
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Kitty Pryde1 wrote: There's a reason Courtney was not voted off first. That reason is spelled T-o-d-d. Leslie was actually targeted by Aaron as the weakest first, followed by Courtney. Todd went along with Leslie going first, but even though so many people targeted Courtney after that, she was never in any danger because of Todd. He knew he was the next weakest after Todd and Courtney, so he kept her in, when other people tried to get her out, which is another example of him outplaying people trying to go against him, in this case, his ally. Even in the challenges, you never heard Jeff say "Todd, falling behind", or anything like that. He was even benefcial in a few of them. The only reason you think people in China were stupid was because Todd convinced them to do things, or not do things, that would make them look stupid for doing or not doing. Todd was targeted by Jean Robert in the beginning, by Amanda in the top five and top four, by Denise in the top four, by Erik in the top six, and by Peih-Gee all throughout the merge. He probably would've also been targeted by Jaime, but he knew she was a strategc threat, so she was out first in the merge. Todd had votes against him in the top 7, 6, 5, and 4. The reason he didn't go in those weeks was that he made deals with the people who had his fate in their hands. James didn't play the idol because of Todd. Denise voted out Erik because of Todd. Amanda stuck to her word in the top five because of the deal Todd made with her, and he persuaded her to keep him in the top four. That to me shows someone who had people targeting him who he outwitted. He also saved Jean Robert a couple of times when people targeted him, just like how he saved Courtney. I can name at least five or six players that season who made way more strategic moves than the average players in pretty much every other season. Four people in Vanuatu wanted Chris out. Brady voted out Rory because he assumed the whole tribe was smart, and not just three other people. He thought it would be almost unanimous. I don't see how he would've been safe with women, because every woman killed him in that challenge. Sarge was the one who formed that alliance to keep him, and even if it would've been Chris who did it, it still wouldn't have worked in a season where the older people didn't outnumber the younger people on a tribe. Spencer was out in Tocantins because he did badly in a challenge. Even if that wasn't it, if he was like Todd, he would've already put himself in a position where the whole tribe could find out he was really Boston Rob in disguise, and he would still manage to get people to keep him. Even if Todd's tribe lost more challenges in China, he had the numbers so that he would be the last one left like Stephenie, and has proven to be a good enough persuader that he could work his way up in the merge like Danni. We wouldn't know for sure, but if he can convince someone not to play an immunity idol when they have two in the third to last chance to play one, I don't think there's much he wouldn't be able to convince people of.
Last Edited By: ilovekelly752
10/30/09 4:10 PM.
Edited 5 times.
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SurvivorNinja |
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ilovekelly...I'm sure you have some interesting points (maybe not) but no one is going to read them in that wall of text. Paragraphs are your friend.
ETA: I tried to read part of what you said. It was Aaron and Leslie who got Leslie targeted...not Todd. Todd may have tried to protect Courtney but Aaron was the one who pushed for Leslie to go, and Leslie set that up by being too friendly with Zhan Hu. |
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ilovekelly752 |
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SurvivorNinja wrote: I didn't say he got Leslie out. I might've said he voted her out, but if it seems like I meant that he orchestrated her elimination I'll change that. ETA: Yeah, I just looked at it, and I can definitely see how you got the impression that I meant Todd targeted Leslie. I changed it though.
Last Edited By: ilovekelly752
10/30/09 4:08 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Buccaneer |
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Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Sandra is not the worst winner she's actually the best. Even if she's a weak female she is the best strategic mastermind who's ever played and would get everybody to keep her time and time again. She was in complete control of her tribe in Pearl Islands and then completely safe at the merge. |
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ThrowMeGabon |
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Buccaneer wrote:This isn't about the best winner. This is about the person who would win most if they played the game 100 times. In some ways, Sandra is the best winner because her win was so unlikely...and Earl was the worst winner because it was so predictable. |
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CSCin3D |
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There is NO way Sandra would ever win in ANY other situation. She just got lucky. Worst. Winner. Ever. |
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ilovekelly752 |
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CSCin3D wrote:I wouldn't say "any" other situation. She was a good manipulator. She wasn't great in challenges but she was a very god strategist. |
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Buccaneer |
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ThrowMeGabon wrote:I know and Sandra would win the most if the game was played 100 times. People will always underestimate her! She will outsmart the competition every time. To put her last is a big joke especially with winners who couldn't even make it to the merge in All Stars and just lucked into their wins the first time. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Buccaneer wrote:If the 100 seasons being discussed are all All-Stars, then yes, Sandra would succeed much more often than many other winners. But we're talking about: you play the game multiple times with different casts and no one knows anyone else every time. Sandra would be at an automatic disadvantage early in the game due to her physical weakness, her mouthiness, her ethnicity potentially seperating her emotionally from her tribe, and her gender automatically putting a target on her back, regardless of her skill in challenges. |
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Buccaneer |
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Kitty Pryde1 wrote:Sandra had so many problems her first time playing with complete strangers. Except you know she won! Please think with your brain. Sandra is extremely savvy and took complete control of her tribe pre-merge and that is no accident. She will always be safe at the merge. I also don't see why you put Sandra last when Tina is just as frail as Sandra and has already been voted out first by such brain surgeons as Jenna L., Jerri, Rudy, and Rupert! Bob I can see since he's a guy and he won some challenges. Sandra won't be in danger because she knows how to make alliances and doesn't just have to hope her tribe wins pre-merge. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Had Sandra's tribe not won the first challenge, she would've been booted first. This has been established even by people who later became her allies.
In the pre-merge stage of the game, challenge strength plays a huge role in whether or not a player will make it to the merge. Sure, Sandra's in good
position if she makes the merge, but getting there in seasons where she doesn't have one tribe self-destructing and several rounds to build alliances. But
put her on a tribe like Foa Foa and she's out first.
ETA: Also, Tina's not exactly HIGH on my list. She's still in the bottom three. But the thing that sets her apart from Sandra and Todd is that within the first four episodes of her original season, she survived THREE tribal councils while they only survived ONE each. Tina had to actively play the game to keep herself safe for three rounds, and made a move in booting Mitchell that bettered her position in the game. Her playing in All-Stars doesn't mean jack-shit because she was on a tribe with Jerri, who hated her, and Jenna, whose main goal in the game was to eliminate all the winners. So going into All-Stars, Tina did NOT have a clean slate. Had she had a clean slate, it's entirely possible Jenna and Jerri would've seen her as being like a mom to them, and they would've targetted Rudy first.
Last Edited By: Kitty Pryde1
10/31/09 12:37 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Buccaneer |
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If Sandra's tribe lost the first challenge she would outsmart them and find a way out just like she did in Pearl Islands. Nobody can say what would really
happen until it happens. Challenge strength is important at the start but it is not everything and Sandra will always be smart enough to rise to the top.
When her tribe lost a challenge, Sandra got Burton an alpha male, and one of their tribe's strongest guys to go before her! When they kept losing did
Sandra even receive a single vote? Nope! In fact she became the safest person on the tribe when she single handedly orchestrated a blindside against Fairplay
the evil mastermind himself! You just do not appreciate good strategists like Sandra. At least you should not have put her last behind somebody like Tina who
is weak physically and a much worse strategist than Sandra. Tina didn't even have to work hard to stay in the game because Kel had made himself an easy
boot because of the beef jerky incidents so she just lucky there and it showed in all stars where she couldn't survive one single vote against a bunch of
Survivor losers.
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kenc333 |
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I love Sandra, and think she's the most entertaining winner of all-time, but Kitty's probably right in that she's not the kind of player that would consistently go far based on skills, physical abilities and personality. If you're to say that Sandra could find a way out of being eliminated, I'm sure all of the winners could do that... Amber had a hand in having Jerri voted out before her in the most unbalanced tribe swap ever, Danni got Judd, etc thrown out before her, Bob saved himself through Sugar when Randy went... I think the question has to be, what can Sandra do that no other winner is capable of? If I were to choose the winners who would consistently go far, my top 3 would probably be Danni, Earl and Parvati. |
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Buccaneer |
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kenc333 wrote: Nope you are wrong. People assume that because she is entertaining she must not be a good player also but the fact is she is both! In fact people underestimating her is why she will do well each time! You do not have to be a boring gamebot like the alpha male clones to be a good player. You say that all the winners could find a way out of being eliminated but at least 3 former winners on all stars did not. They could not figure out how to take the targets off their backs enough to survive. So why is Sandra the worst? omg because she is entertaining so she must not be a good player!1!!! Wrong! She is just that good! Even if we say all the winners could get out of those situations though you have made my point. You want to know what Sandra can do that no other winner is capable of? There is an endless list of first time accomplishments by her. She can mouth off to players, stab them in the back, toss out their fish, kick sand into their faces, not win challenges, and she completely gets away with it and almost win unanimously at the end without ever getting voted for. |
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CSCin3D |
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LOL at how ridiculous Kitty's rankings are. Automatic deductions for not being white <3333 |
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