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Either you're clearly just a fantard, or you've been spoiled that Sandra goes far in S20 (don't tell me if I'm right, because I want to be surprised if she does go far). Seriously, Sandra had little to do with much of went on pre-Rupert's boot in PI. Fairplay sides with Burton's alliance and she's in a bad position. Drake loses the first challenge and she's in a bad position. Tina, meanwhile, managed to survive three votes despite being a weak link in her tribe, due to her social game which was better than Kel's (he was outcast early on for being quiet), her physical game, which was better than Maralyn's, and her strategic game, which was better than Mitchell's. To say Sandra played better than Tina pre-merge is insane and biased.

Now, since you're clearly not going to listen to reason, I'll move on to my ranking of the second-placers.

18. Courtney (The bottom seven are really hard to choose betwen, but in the end I just had to go with Courtney because of so many negative factors that worked against her. She's physically weak, one of the weakest players in the show's history, and she also showed a very bad attitude on multiple occasions throughout the game. Had she not gotten lucky with who was on her tribe, or had Leslie not made such a poor move after returning from her kidnapping, Courtney probably would've been the first player out of the game.)
17. Kim (Kim was basically saved during her tribe's first two tribal councils by the fact that A. Clarence was a douchebag, and B. Diane and Jessie both got sick from dehydration out in Africa. She was the oldest woman in the game and she actually cost her tribe the win in their first challenge, but she made it far due to Samburu sucking harder than Boran. Overall, she didn't seem very strategic, and as a result, she was in the position at the F4 where she, a 56-year-old woman, had to win two immunity challenges to make the end.)
16. Cassandra (She was nice and all, but she was also extremely weak, and her tribe also got to lounge around on the "Haves" beach for the entire game. She gets stuck on the "Have-Nots" or if her team managed to ever lose a challenge, I have no doubt she would've been voted out. Hell, I'm still not entirely sure why Liliana got the boot instead of her at Moto's only tribal council.)
15. Susie (She was very weak and old and apparently very obnoxious, which is not a good combination to have going into Survivor. I think had Michelle not been so obnoxious early on, Susie would've been targetted sooner than the swap, at which point her tribe dominated and got to nearly the merge, where voting her out would've been a waste. She definitely benefitted from the swaps in her season, and she really wasn't all that forceful in her strategy.)
14. Clay (He's old, weak, and extremely chauvanistic and prick-ish. Again, not a good combination. The fact that he survived three tribal councils just goes to show how absolutely pathetic the rest of Chuay Ghan was, especially since I don't think JAN even got a vote before the merge. He managed to bond with Sook Jai, yeah, but he just pissed people off on his own tribe, which is never a good thing.)
13. Lillian (Lill actually WAS an early boot, but I'll cut her some slack because of how absolutely awful the Morgan Five were. Still, she's an older woman and, like Shambo, she broke a crucial piece of her tribe's equipment, which isn't going to help. She had enough going against her early on that she's probably going to be targetted for physical weakness or mopeyness, but at the same time, her work-ethic could get her farther in the game.)
12. Katie (If Katie can integrate herself into a strong alliance, I think she's always going to be in a good position in the game. She's not so weak that she would automatically be targetted because of it, but I think her bad attitude might piss people off and turn them against her. Her sense of humor could get her friends, but it could also get her enemies, so it's hard to tell how Katie would do on a tribe that didn'tt win every single challenge.)
11. Neleh (She's extremely nice and sweet, which might make it difficult for her tribe to vote her out, despite her not being the strongest girl in the world. She's naive though and alliances don't really seem big to her, nor does she know how to handle them properly, so I would say Neleh would get voted out normally in seasons where her tribe didn't dominate.)
10. Twila (She's a hard worker and she's also got a good mind for her own self-interests, so that at least gives her more of a boost than the players below her, but at the same time, she has a very abrasive personality and is an older woman, which is something that gives you an automatic target on your back which is not easy to overcome.)
9. Ozzy (He's a huge challenge threat, but he's also kind of an arrogant douchebag. He lets that strength get to his head and didn't really bother strategizing in either season beyond getting himself into an alliance. As such, it was easy for both alliances to get rid of them--or at least it would have been had he not won so many immunities in Cook Islands.)
8. Matthew (He's kinda clueless, but he's also not a bad guy. He knows how to work hard and keep people liking him at least, or maybe he knows how to frighten them into not voting him out. At the same time, he did display strategic prowess in getting himself to the finals of Amazon, and he has challenge strength to spare, so who knows.)
7. Colby (He's a huge challenge whore, which puts a major target on his back. But like J.T., he's also a nice guy and a young guy who works hard, which gets people liking him and wanting to keep him around. He's more than capable of challenge-whoring his way to the end though, which gets him around the middle of all second-placers.)
6. Stephenie (A very strong woman, and that's definitely a benefit to her. Steph's gender is less likely to get her targetted post-merge, even if she's a physical threat, and she's got a forceful enough personality to get things done her way. Her main downfall is that strong women have a hard time succeeding in the game and generally get blindsided because they're running the show, like Ami or Deena.)
5. Rob (I think that Rob is a very smooth operator and he's very good at manipulating people, as he showed in both Marquesas and All-Stars. He's a physical player, but not so much so that he would necessarily turn people off of keeping him around. Plus his personality makes him more likely to be taken to the jury, even if it might also get him in hot water.)
4. Amanda (She's clearly an endgamer, since she made the FTC twice, but I think that of the four players I'd consider end-gamers, she'd be the least likely to actually succeed in winning at the jury. She's too emotional and unable to clearly state her case for winning. Still, she's almost guaranteed to go far no matter what due to physical strength and inherent charm.)
3. Kelly (She played a good social game and a good physical game as well, just like Danielle and Amanda. Her demographic is very successful at making it far in the game, and I think she would do so time and time again, and would win quite often too.)
2. Danielle (She showed a strong grasp of the strategic game in booting Bobby over Bruce and in stringing Terry along for her own protection. Had Bruce not been medevaced, she would've been in a much better position in her tribe. And her physical abilities make her good for consistently reaching the end-game.)
1. Stephen (Had he been against anyone but J.T., I think Stephen would've won. Being a lawyer makes him good at arguing to the jury, and he's a physical enough player that he wouldn't be targetted early like Todd or Skinny Ryan. Also, he clearly had a good social game, given that he managed to firmly establish himself in the Jalapao tribe despite being geographically distant from most of his tribe members.)

SurvivorNinja wrote:

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SkyDreamer wrote:

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Stephen is not a lawyer. Courtney > Cassandra.

This. I also don't really understand the logic that Stephen is that much better in challenges than Todd.

Todd was scrawny and never even in contention for challenges post-merge. Stephen won a challenge post-merge, did well on several others, and wasn't scrawny.

Buccaneer wrote:

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kenc333 wrote:

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On All-Stars, Tina, Rich and Ethan got voted out because they had a previous reputation (Tina was specifically targetted for being a winner), so given the premise of this thread, that example wouldn't apply to your argument.

I get that you're a huge fan of hers and think she's the greatest thing to happen to Survivor, but I don't think you can honestly say that someone like Sandra is more likely to go further in multiple seasons (with no previous reputations) than someone like Danni. And she won 6-1 because the jury didn't wanna reward an outcast with the win and because Lill had to fight the burden of being labelled as the Scout master.

Except my argument was that Tina, Rich, and Ethan were not able to remove the targets off their backs which makes my argument still apply. You can have a target for a whole bunch of reasons but a good player can get rid of them. At least make it past one tribal council!

So I cannot say that Sandra is likely to make it further in multiple seasons but other people are if they back people like Danni? What a hypocrite you are!

Tina had to deal with bitter assholes wanting to take her down from day one. Rich had to deal with everyone and their mother wanting to dethrone him. Ethan had to deal with Lex not wanting anyone else strong on his tribe. They got voted out for reasons that would NEVER happen in a normal season.

And no, you can't, because your entire argument is: "Sandra controlled the game and actively shifted the target onto other people and never got a vote against her". Meanwhile, in the real world, other people put targets on their own backs, other people were in minority alliances, and Sandra was so weak, post-merge, that voting for her made no sense.