They'll never kill Gwen off. She's this show's Rose. Davies can't get enough of the character. I do think Rhys and Andy will die, because they kill off everyone else, they probably won't stop now, and because I think the show still believes Jack and Gwen should be a couple. I'd rather Rhys just get custody of the baby and leave. He can be like Wonder Girl's husband. Oh that's right, he's dead too.

I know John wouldn't be a regular, but it would be nice to see him once or twice. Jack can always go visit him for some grief debauchery.

cginspace wrote:

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To me, Ianto and Jack both seemed out of options, and went there to see if the could call the bluff. A bit of a stretch, but not crazily so.

As far as Ianto's death, I completely disagree. The death played very well into the story of Jack maintaining the enigma of his past, showing the consequences on a relationship (he was an ass to Ianto and essentially broke it off before the truth could do the same thing... which is relatable. It also was an interesting variation on the Jack's old story of outliving those he loves: He exected to do this once again and was protecting himself from the pain; yet Ianto's death turned that whole notion on its head. I hated that Ianto died, but it made sense thematically... and also fit into a bigger theme of the show: The sins of the past not only hurt us, but hurt those we love most.

I don't think going to yell at your enemy when you know they have all kinds of powers and all you have is a gun is ever a smart option. I know they aren't geniuses but that stuck out for me in a bad way.

The way you explain this, yes, it does make sense. The way it came across onscreen, I thought Ianto's death was overshadowed immediately and I never thought the Jack/Ianto relationship was built up enough that he loved Ianto most. Barrowman's performance also did not convince me of that. I just felt like they decided someone needed to die for the sake of dying, and since Davies never had any real plans for Ianto (Gwen and Jack were their favorites -- Ianto was a small role which expanded because of how many fans got a kick out of him), he got Ianto out of the way. I also thought that the way Jack behaved towards Ianto as he died was very cold, and selfish, and that if they wanted people to be truly moved by Ianto's death, that scene could have been much more powerful. Instead it just seemed empty, I thought.

I don't know if you've ever seen any clips from the old, mostly lost DW story "Daleks' Master Plan", but the First Doctor and his companion Steven had been joined by a young Trojan woman named Katarina. She literally worshipped the Doctor as a god. Their next adventure was flying out into space and battling the Daleks. They ended up on a spaceship, with an insane man who had stowed away with them demanding they go back to a planet of Daleks where they would likely be killed. He had Katarina trapped in the airlock with him. Steven pleaded with the Doctor and the ship's pilot to turn around and go back. As the pilot argued with them, Katarina inched closer and closer to the button she knew would eject herself and the insane man into outer space. As Steven pleaded with her not to do this, she pushed the button, and killed herself and this lunatic. The Doctor and Steven were horrified and numb and all the Doctor could say was that she had saved potentially everyone in the universe, and he hoped she had found her place of perfection

To me, this is the way to have a sudden, shocking death with huge consequences. And it's what I would have wanted for Ianto. Instead, I got a death which seemed to dismiss him as a character in his own right, made him look foolish, made him into nothing more than Jack's boyfriend who made Jack mope and kill his grandson and then go off to outer space.

But we can agree to disagree. I'll try to look at it from another point of view. What I hate the most is that I did enjoy a lot of this miniseries, but the Ianto and Stephen (the grandson suddenly invented only to be killed) sections annoyed me so much they are all I can remember.

SurvivorArctic wrote:

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This may not go over well, but I was never a fan of Ianto. I thought he was a needy, wuss of a man. I was sad he died, but no where near as sad as when Tosh died.

I miss her most of all.

I wasn't sad when he died either, because it wasn't done in a way which elicited sorrow from me, but I agree at times he was too needy. That's why I was never a huge fan of the stuff with Jack, it was always too undefined. I preferred the Ianto who was funny and had good one-liners. That was what made him stand out. My favorite episode was when he kept going around stungunning the villains. I think that was "Meat".

I was very sad when Tosh died and I think that death was very well written and performed.

They had such wonderful characters in those first few seasons, it's sad to see them leave. The only one I don't miss is Owen.

Gregoire wrote:

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Eh, Jack could do better.

They'll just end up being killed anyway. I'd rather not see him with anyone, I've never believed any times when he's supposed to have feelings for a character (Rose, Gwen, Ianto). I would rather just see him have casual sex and not have any permanent relationships. Like the stuff with John. That was fun.