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All-Star Survivor: Hawaii - final notes are up. I'm done!

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colleenlover		#981	[-]
Posts: 8250 (06/13/08 9:57 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	that's convenient. Kathy talked with Alicia and Gretchen as a plan together with thinking Gretchen was leaving, with working together and sabatoaging- or at least gretchen proposed that. So if Kathy thought Gretchen was leaving, Alicia and Kathy talked about Alicia's plan of voting Kathy out instead of Gretchen (who would already be voted out)?
SenseiKreese		#982	[-]
Posts: 2367 (06/13/08 10:32 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Now you're just being silly. How hard is it to imagine that this conversation probably took place? Alicia: I swear to God, Kathy, I'm gonna kill her. I can stand dealing with her one more minute. She's driving me crazy. Kathy: I know. I know. She's bugging me too, but we have to stick together on this. We're a threesome. We need the numbers. Alicia: Well if it ever comes down to me or her, I'm taking her out. I just want you to know that. If she fucks us up and starts threatening our win, I'm taking her out. I won't even think twice about it. Kathy: Um, yeah. Well, just don't do anything without talking to me first, okay? Don't do anything rash. Because if you screw her, remember, you screw me. So don't go flying off the handle or anything. Alicia: I wouldn't do that. I'm not an idiot. Kathy: Good. Just be sure to think of the bigger picture. We're gonna need her for a while. Just because I never physically showed that conversation doesn't mean a very equivalent conversation didn't take place. I implied it a hundred times in the earlier episodes. Kathy was the only glue holding Alicia and Gretchen together. Once Kathy was gone, Alicia had no ties to anyone. She became a free agent.
SenseiKreese		#983	[-]
Posts: 2368 (06/13/08 10:34 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Speaking of which, I have officially yanked the ep 11 working copy from the site. I apologize for this, but it is becoming too big of a distraction and it's not even a finished draft anyway. The more I debate, the less time I have to write. The next time you guys will see this episode is when the final draft is up.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#984	[-]
Posts: 1265 (06/13/08 10:42 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	colleenlover wrote: TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: Perhaps not, but I also don't think Alicia would worry about Kathy not voting for her against an Ahi. In her mind, the action is justifiable to have a chance to win, and while she surely realizes Kathy would have preferred the Kekos to stick together, in the end, only one of them can win, and Kathy knows that too. But she just took the surefire bet of the Kekos taking it and shit on it. And made it a risk. Alicia said she has no intention of going to the end with Gretchen to John -so yeah, she would have to worry about being the loner and being the jerk. How does she think she's going to swing these votes? How is a Colleen victory a victory for the Kekos?
colleenlover		#985	[-]
Posts: 8251 (06/13/08 10:45 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	yeah, I can see that conversation taking place. But it still makes this move really dumb. Alicia made a final two deal with John -big whoop. How is she protected next episode? She is relying on Gretchen coming along, or Tina and Vee voting out Gretchen instead of her. She sacrificed the protection of two people for a majority of three in final five for the protection of one in final five. It's dumb.
SenseiKreese		#986	[-]
Posts: 2369 (06/13/08 10:50 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Alicia knows (or believes) that John holds all the power in this game. That is her impetus. She knows she is in good with the big guy. Seriously, who else is she going to go with? She has no relationship with Colleen. She has no relationship with Vecepia. She hates Gretchen. She's wary of Tina. What other option would she see in her head? She's going with the one guy who she has had any sort of a working relationship with, who also happens to be the guy who calls all the shots in regards to the vote. No, it's not the most perfect plan in the world, but it's certainly better than a F3 with Gretchen and Colleen. Against Gretchen or Colleen, she is pretty sure she can't win. That is the constant variable I am working with here. Every single other event in this episode sort of revolves around the "Alicia doesn't think she can beat Gretchen or Colleen" variable. If you take that as a given, you will see that she doesn't have that many other options. Last Edited By: SenseiKreese 06/13/08 10:53 AM. Edited 1 times.
colleenlover		#987	[-]
Posts: 8252 (06/13/08 10:53 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Lurker -you keep advocating Alicia should be taking this chance of not even getting to the final two because the other way Colleen might win. So now that Tina, Vee and John will likely win, Alicia did the right thing.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#988	[-]
Posts: 1267 (06/13/08 11:08 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Not might win - will win unless Gretchen reneges and wins F3 immunity, which doesn't help Alicia. Colleen has Rob and Gretchen for sure - even you don't disagree with that. I know you disagree about Tina, but I don't see that as even a close call, and even Alicia should be able to see that she wouldn't get her vote over Colleen. Alicia might think she'd have a chance at Frank and Vee (though she'd be far from certain on either), but John basically confirms he'd vote against her if things went down like that. It is a dead end. Colleen may look like a reasonable opponent, but looking vote by vote, Alicia can't beat her. Things aren't much better going the other way - I'll agree with that, especially if Alicia blows taking advantage of this vote to put herself in better position for F5, but at least she's got a chance to win as things stand currently. Weak chance versus no chance - that's the difference, and Alicia isn't Gretchen, where she can derive as much pleasure from an ally winning as herself. To repeat myself, I can't see her worrying about Kathy at all. Kathy is her rooting section. If she has to break a few eggs to get in a winnable situation, she'll bet Kathy will understand.
SenseiKreese		#989	[-]
Posts: 2370 (06/13/08 11:10 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It doesn't matter who wins! I mean, sure it does at the end, but you can't think about that now. The only way I (as a writer) can approach this decision is to put myself in Alicia's shoes. What do I do if I am Alicia? What do I do at this very moment? Do I go with a F3 plan that is almost guaranteed to work, but I sort of see as a Bataan Death March into second place? Or do I take the more risky plan and play for the win? Which way do I go? Obviously Alicia isn't here to answer this question for us, that's the problem. So as a writer I have to make a decision. Which way do I think she would go? And I'll tell you exactly where I think she would go. I think she is going to stumble boldly (yet blindly) into a high risk/high reward deal with the bad guys. Why? Well because that seems much more like her inner nature. I wouldn't guess that Alicia Calaway is one of the more gifted strategists on the face of the earth. She's not Brian Heidik. She's not Richard Hatch. She's not a philosopher. But I would guess that she is incredibly ballsy. To me, Alicia seems like a woman who probably likes gambling. And that's exactly why I think she would sort of get off on the whole high risk/high reward potential of the John F2 pact. She would love it. Because even if she were to lose (which is a possibility), I think she would still find it much more appealing than going out like a chump against, as Sean referred to her, Hello Kitty in the final two. With John, I think Alicia sees that even if she loses, she at least goes down in a blaze of glory. She at least goes out on her terms. And for the way I have written Alicia in the story, I think that is very much in her character. I don't think her decision to go with John is unrealistic at all. She doesn't want to go out as a chump, she just wants to be relevant. Last Edited By: SenseiKreese 06/13/08 11:14 AM. Edited 1 times.
SenseiKreese		#990	[-]
Posts: 2371 (06/13/08 11:19 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	In fact, in the final draft, I will probably have Tina even TELL Alicia that she would vote for Colleen at the end. Why? Same reasoning as John. If Colleen gets to the end, she must have done something right. Because Colleen was never supposed to get there. In fact, now that I think about it, that's probably a scene I need to add somewhere at the start of day 33. A Tina/Alicia convo would make this episode flow a little better. At the very least, it would give Tina some dialogue.
colleenlover		#991	[-]
Posts: 8253 (06/13/08 11:20 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It doesn't matter who wins! I mean, sure it does at the end, but you can't think about that now. That's been my arguement the whole time, and you kept saying the opposite.
colleenlover		#992	[-]
Posts: 8254 (06/13/08 11:27 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Now you're fixing it to make it work in your manipulated scenario. Why would Tina want Colleen out in an ideal world? She is walking smack dab into Vee having control and leverage with John. She never wanted Gretchen to hang around.
SenseiKreese		#993	[-]
Posts: 2372 (06/13/08 11:46 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Tina doesn't want Colleen out. She didn't even want Gretchen in the final six. But Tina hasn't been in control for a while. Expect that to change soon.
colleenlover		#994	[-]
Posts: 8255 (06/13/08 1:16 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Last Edited By: colleenlover 06/13/08 1:23 PM. Edited 1 times.
colleenlover		#995	[-]
Posts: 8256 (06/14/08 9:54 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I still have the working draft but I realize it can be changed, and should only be construed that way. As objective as I can be, I still don't understand a lot of this reasoning. Gretchen in previous episodes has been disappointed in Colleen and she's not the same. Now she wants her to win at all costs? Colleen in previous episodes has been viewed as useless and John winning hands down in Gretchen's mind -with Tina, Colleen and Vee all needing one another (last episode). Now Alicia thinks Colleen is the most unbeatable person despite seeing how she's treated by others just because John told her so in an obvious strategic play. What else do you say if someone asks that -"oh, yeah, they'd win hands down -better get rid of them instead of me." Alicia spills all to John where she could potentially get five people angry at her, and then let's him decide who the boot is going to be. How does she know he's not going to pick Vee or Tina? It still seems like an ellaborate set-up for all these pieces to fall conveniently into place just for Colleen to go. You have Colleen agreeing to this before talking to Alicia, yet for the past three rounds she kept turning them down. So now Alicia is going to put herself at John's mercy with his KNOWN block of three, and hope he keeps his word- when prior to this he never gave her any concrete info except, "just hold on and wait." Because Gretchen raised her voice to Alicia in frustration when she was trying to save the keko group? John never gave Alicia a plan, and Gretchen mapped one out. So Gretchen is using Alicia as a pawn and John isn't? Did Alicia think John's classified info was always in her best interest to get to the end? Wasn't Alicia treating John like Rob because she had no other options and hopefully if things kept going the way they were, she'd be the last keko and maybe be useful. When Tina came on board with the plan to get rid of Rob, was Alicia countering with John? Wasn't Alicia planing on going to the end with Kathy and Gretchen- where she'd have to know they'd both have a better shot of winning. So now that she has been given the free gift of Colleen -the baby of the group, who has been perceived by the group as having everything handed to her, she's going to throw it all away? Does she think John, Vee or Tina are going to be less aggressive in the final two?
colleenlover		#996	[-]
Posts: 8257 (06/14/08 10:07 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm sorry but Alicia as the loner would be pissed off at everyone. She's going to be seething that Ahi's little group keeps running off and plotting- she already went through it once before. Now Tina gets to do it again? And Vee? She's going to be ready to wipe them out if she could -and relish every minute of it. She'd be thinking, "you think you're smarter than me?" Even John. Well, there you go. She's going to seize her power at least for this episode. So she gets rid of Colleen -big whoop. Now she watches Tina, John and Vee gloat even more, smug faces- that she helped do the dirty work of getting rid of Colleen and made their job easier. I can't believe that Alicia -once she's safe and has immunity wouldn't be adament that she wants Tina out of the game. She pulled her Keko bullshit two episodes ago, and then all smiles said, "sorry, guys." Alicia would want to smash her face in. So now that's two seasons that Alicia is made a chump out of by Tina- she'd say screw you, Wesson -you sit in the jury and see how you like it. If she doesn't trust Gretchen and Colleen, she still knows she's protected by them next episode and can make the same play to John after she gets a read on the situation.
colleenlover		#997	[-]
Posts: 8258 (06/14/08 10:15 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	With John, I think Alicia sees that even if she loses, she at least goes down in a blaze of glory. She at least goes out on her terms. And for the way I have written Alicia in the story, I think that is very much in her character. I don't think her decision to go with John is unrealistic at all. She doesn't want to go out as a chump, she just wants to be relevant. Her terms would never be to let Tina outlast her again if it's possible. The Vee/Tina/John have been making a chump out of her for ten days. She'd never risk it if she has the power. Colleen has been sleeping, crying and pouting, John has been cooking, winning challenges and everyone's buddy. Alicia talks to John, reads his bullshit, I never got that she trusted him -other than ties to the original version. A more realistic scenario is Vee, Tina and John guilting Colleen, and since Colleen isn't protected by the rock, she votes out Gretchen -and sticks with Ahi. I always thought -or my logic- was that Tina and Vee needed Colleen as a parachute in case the other winner left. Colleen is on the same semi-level of winning -except without the respect. I always thought Vee would perceive Colleen as her only possible winning ticket- "Okay, you guys can not vote for me, but you're hypocrites- what did this girl do? Nothing. And you know it."
colleenlover		#998	[-]
Posts: 8259 (06/14/08 11:06 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Still working it through- if you go this route. It's still not adding up. if it were final five and say Gretchen won immunity, and there were John, Tina and Vee there and they voted out Colleen, I'd say, "oh bummer, but would see the logic." Or if if was an Ahi final four and Vee won immunity and she sets it to Colleen, I'd understand, and say, "shoot, darn. bummer." Alicia is making this deal with John. Got it. But then he says he has to go and talk to others. Isn't that raising a flag to Alicia? How does she expect him to sell it? Alicia told me this -then wouldn't Alicia think Tina and Vee would think, "why is Alicia telling him this?" She's giving him time to work another counter plan that she's not privvy to. Wouldn't Tina wonder why Colleen is voting out John, and wonder how John has countered this? It makes much more sense of Alicia giving John the headsup that unfortuantely Tina is leaving, but you said you didn't want her in final four anyway. So don't make it hard on yourself- and then making the final two pact with him, swearing she'll go final two with him after this vote. That at least gets her covered. She's giving John too many variables to play with that she won't know about. You said it's always been fiction, which of course it is. But it's fiction with the percentages always on the side of reason. Frank could have a tree fall on him, but you can't go that route because the chance of that happening is like .5% This is another case where the percentage is very low for it to go this route. The high percentage after one of G/C/A winning immunity is they force the tie because they have the odds in their favor with Tina leaving because of John. Then in the next episode the percentage is about 50/50 in what Alicia wants to do and then it's an author's choice. But here the chances are very slim that Alicia is going to dismiss her winning path- or the first chance she has of going the distance) when in the pervious seasons (the first four) there's been no other case of it.
colleenlover		#999	[-]
Posts: 8260 (06/14/08 11:22 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You changed the Vee boot episode in #9 when you realized it wasn't adding up. That was an intended storyline you had mapped out, and then recalled. You had Tina not trust Vee and then refigured it out not making sense. Why not here?
colleenlover		#1000	[-]
Posts: 8261 (06/14/08 11:57 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Colleen wanted to quit. And then you had production all in a tizzy about worrying the show was going to be ruined if Colleen, specifically quit. So now if production is playing slight favorites, don't you think they're going to try to lead Alicia back into questioning? She already got the "you think you can beat Colleen..." don't you think she'll get the "you think John is going to stick to this plan?"

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