All-Star Survivor: Hawaii - final notes are up. I'm done! - Lions, Tigers, Survivors - Oh My! - Survivor Related - Survivor Sucks - Message Board

All-Star Survivor: Hawaii - final notes are up. I'm done!

Started By	Comment
SenseiKreese		#1121	[-]
Posts: 2428 (08/19/08 1:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	By the way, I feel a little guilty recycling a reward from one of my other stories (the house, which I gave away in Alaska). But I was trying to come up with the "ultimate reward" for what is supposed to be the best Survivor season ever (I mean duh, it's All-Stars), and again a house was the best thing I could come up with. Besides, you think an Alaskan house is worth something? Try getting a Hawaiian house. That's a whole different real estate market altogether. So anyway, even if I felt bad about recycling a reward, in the context of the story I thought I could get away with it. Oh yeah, and I also love the added dynamic of "Well wait, now Alicia is sort of a millionaire too. Does she really belong here anymore? Doesn't that change things?" I thought that would make the last six days a little more interesting. :)
Kitty Pryde1		#1122	[-]
Posts: 5360 (08/19/08 1:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	My favorite parts of the episode were John's yells to Vee and the fact that Vee/Tina want Gretchen to go to keep John from getting closer with Alicia, and John wants Gretchen to go because he doesn't want her getting close with Vee/Tina. Overall, I think John's mistake was, if he didn't want to go on reward, not telling Alicia to take Gretchen.
PJMichaelangelo		#1123	[-]
Posts: 119 (08/19/08 9:31 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SenseiKreese wrote: I don't know if I'd go so far as to say he has no chance. Remember, there are other changing and shifting variables besides John. At the moment he doesn't have much of a chance, but that's not to say that in 2 days that might not change. There are some interesting things about to happen in this episode. Well, I'll obviously wait to see what happens at TC, but if John can pull his chestnuts out of this fire then he's the new Criss Angel. Seriously, I just can't see how he can worm his way out of this predicament.
colleenlover		#1124	[-]
Posts: 8368 (08/19/08 10:03 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It's well written. I'll be nice as possible- though still perplexed, so I can't comment on strategy or character. None of these people should be in the mess their in- Tina or Gretchen should be gone. Constructively, for this version, I do not think they will give beach-front land and a house to a player. It would easily be more than a million dollars, and the taxes alone would be a headache. I get it from the story/fantasy point of view, but it is just not going to happen in real life. In my rewrite, I kept it as close to your intention with Alicia -even though it pained me to make her so foolish. But John, Tina and Vee voted off Gretchen, duh the biggest threat! -Colleen has egg on her face and no trust now with Alicia; Alicia is floating alone scammed by John. John DOES NOT NEED Alicia to go to the final two, he never did in this version (in the 2002 one, yes). In his mind, he would think any Keko would beat the pants off of any Ahi. Hmm, so Alicia won the reward, we'll see what that does. I personally (of course, personally) still don't get why Alicia didn't go to John and tell him she's voting off Tina and tell him to come along. It would have been the best thing for him anyway, and then if she wanted to go with John and Vecepia. It's not like she can avoid a risky final three that is just taken on face value of trust with John no matter which combo she gets with Colleen, Vee, Tina or Gretchen. It's so hard not to get mad at this story, but it's well written.
SenseiKreese		#1125	[-]
Posts: 2429 (08/20/08 12:35 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't mind that you did a rewrite, that was well within your rights as a reader. But I will ask that at the very least, you not talk about it in this forum. At least not until the story is over. I don't want it getting people confused. I'm planning on doing a publicity blitz for Hawaii once this episode is posted, and I don't want people stumbling into Sucks and wondering why there are two different versions. That being said, you'll find out really quick that a "beachfront house on Kauai" isn't quite what the players thought it was. It's a house, yes, but it's nowhere near the beach. Alicia's going to find out really quickly that she's going to have to refer to it differently when she gets back to camp. I'm well aware they wouldn't give away a beach house either. Like Tina said, that's worth more than actually winning Survivor. Day 35 I think is particularly well written, so you guys should like it. It's just character scene after character scene. It should be up in about 2 hours.
SenseiKreese		#1126	[-]
Posts: 2430 (08/20/08 2:00 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Okay day 35 is up. I like this day a lot. Days without challenges are always the most fun to write. Of course, that being said, day 36 is going to be a doozy because it has a really fun challenge right at the start of it :) http://www.averdata.net/~locbaseb/ep12pt2.htm P.S. I really did pet some honus on the beach in Hawaii, just like Gretchen and Tina. It was a lot of fun. Yes they are really big, yes they are really slimy, and no they couldn't give two craps about you. They just sit there and don't even react to you. Although if you hurt one in any way, it is a federal offense in Hawaii and you will pretty much go to jail for it. Honus are very much sacred creatures on the beaches of Hawaii. You are supposed to leave them alone.
DMC362		#1127	[-]
Posts: 75 (08/20/08 5:42 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I am enjoying the twist and turns of these last few days and not knowing where it is going to end
TheLurkerSpeaks		#1128	[-]
Posts: 1280 (08/20/08 8:59 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Heh, I can't believe John actually had to point out what a bad move using the spoiler on Tina would be. Even if Alicia wants to vote her out, using the spoiler just broadcasts that fact. Tina has seemingly made her choice so it is up to John now. Obviously, Gretchen is going to work him over, and with his tendency toward paranoia, he certainly could be swayed. I don't think it would be a huge surprise to him that Tina plans on going to the end with Vee. The key for him is what Vee is planning so their conversation will be key. Ironically, Vee could have been downplaying the risk of keeping Gretchen with Tina and now have to emphasize it with John.
yankees42789		#1129	[-]
Posts: 1470 (08/20/08 5:52 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Loving this episode, Mario. Day 34 in particular was fantastic to me. I'm still not sure how important this episode is in general, though. The way I see it is that no matter what Gretchen offers, I don't see why John is going to vote out Tina this episode. Even if John is fearful of a Vee/Tina Final Two, I think he has more faith in his F2 deal with Vee than people are giving him credit for. If John's playing just to get 100% odds of making the Final Two, then yeah, he might risk taking out Tina here and then Gretchen at 4 (though with the history of Fallen Comrades, there's no way he should even dream of letting Gretchen in there. She'd wreck them all, even Tina.) But if he's playing to win it all, he has to know that he'd lose to Alicia (as a former Keko) and that he shouldn't let her into the Final Three. Is going into the Final Three with both Tina/Vee suicide? I'd say no (at least from John's point of view) for two reasons. The first is that he's not sure if Vee/Tina really think their only chance is against each other. The second is his trump card that if Vee probably can't beat Tina. Do these players have respect for Vee? Absolutely. But I don't think one person on that jury has positive feelings about Vee as a person. As far as the game goes, she's too shady and I'm not sure whether they'd want to lose to her, especially if given the chance to vote for sweet Tina. I really think Vee may have a better shot against John, especially if he brutally screws over Alicia at the F4 (and knowing how bad she's going to attack him at the Final TC). If Tina wins the F3 Immunity- oh well, good game. Vee and Tina need to just trust John (has he ever really given them a reason not to?) and finish off the Kekos. The other really interesting thing to me here is the hero edit of Gretchen vs. the "Alicia is a moron and now she's almost already won" edit. We're obviously supposed to be rooting for Alicia to go down hard which really leads me to think that she just can't win this game. If Gretchen survives this Final Five situation and Tina goes home, I just don't see how she doesn't make it to the Final Three via the Fallen Comrades (even if that's not the challenge, everyone would expect it to be and besides, she's the best overall competitor) and then everyone is screwed (like hell Gretchen would ever give up during an endurance challenge). She must go right now even if it's somewhat less dramatic. The only real drama may be what will John do if he wins F4 IC and has to decide whether or not to screw over Alicia or vote out Tina or if Alicia wins and Vee has to decide whether or not to take a rock for Tina. Actually, it seems like Vecepia is a near lock for the Final Two unless things go badly awry (Alicia wins F3 IC and takes John or Vee takes a rock at F4 and goes out). However, if she gets there, there's almost no way she can beat anyone. Maybe Alicia (but how on earth could that F2 possibly come about?). Almost certainly not John. Not Tina. Not Gretchen. Is Vee the ultimate goat here and there's just no way to make an F2 with her interesting?
SenseiKreese		#1130	[-]
Posts: 2431 (08/20/08 6:17 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Great comments! You touched on something really interesting in one of the paragraphs there. I don't want to give it away and say what it was, but it's something I was very much concerned about as well as I was writing this episode. I got to day 36, and I said, "Holy crap. Am I making this way too obvious? Am I giving away what I suspect the ending might be?" I was so concerned that I might be shoe-horning the editing in a certain direction, that I added a special scene at Tribal Council just to throw everyone off. So anyway, check it out when you read day 36 tonight. See if you can figure out what scene it was. Depending on how I end up editing it in the final version, I think it will be one of the parts of the episode that everyone will be talking about tomorrow. And in regards to this episode being important... who knows? It could be, it could not be. It's awfully hard to write a final five episode where you know exactly what is going to happen. Either I'm totally throwing you off, just in an attempt to make things suspenseful and make it read-worthy, or something bizarre really IS going to happen, and none of the readers has seen it yet. We can talk more about this tomorrow. I still have some nitpicking to do. :)
PJMichaelangelo		#1131	[-]
Posts: 120 (08/20/08 6:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	No, Vee's the ultimate goat and she knows it. That's why she'd rather go to the Final 2 with Tina. She can deal with losing to a former winner. But to lose to Alicia or John just because she's a previous winner? That would burn her forever, especially since she's been playing such a strong game.
SenseiKreese		#1132	[-]
Posts: 2432 (08/20/08 6:24 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yeah Vee is in an interesting position here. In fact, out of all five players, I think she has the most variables where I could go with her. I'm not really sure what's going to happen with her yet.
colleenlover		#1133	[-]
Posts: 8369 (08/20/08 8:25 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	yeah, but remember like a year ago -Vecepia made the final two promise to John to get him to come over to her side. Also, whatever happened to Frank in regards to Tina? Tina has been screwed over by John TWICE, and by Vecepia. I don't get why Tina isn't making a play to use Gretchen this round. She's logical and this is when she has to do this. She feared Gretchen making it this far because she knew this would happen, and now Tina has to use her as a tool to advance herself and take the risk. Isn't the fear greater in John or Alicia winning the 50% final four greater than loyal Gretchen, Vee, Tina 75%? Yes, it's scary -but they have two rounds of play to gamble with getting Gretchen out versus John/Alicia acting as a block in the 50/50 final four immunity win. And Tina is painting herself into a corner if she went with a final four of Alicia,John and Vee where Vee (from Tina's POV) is the only one slightly willing to take her. Makes more sense to use Gretchen, knock out Alicia -and then John has to play ball with them- "or Johnny, you can join Gretchen and go to the final three with her and hope she doesn't win it." If Tina used the things Gretchen was saying to her, she has her on her side as insurance in final four as someone else who would take Tina to the end if it came to that code red. Vee, on the other hand, is the one who doesn't need Gretchen to stay- and thinking the scene should be flipflopped with Vecepia the more adament to Tina that Gretchen should go. Vee is sitting pretty -if John wants to have that moron Alicia stick around fine. If she wins immunity at final four, Vee will vote off Tina. ("Heck, no. I ain't risking that rock -and while Tina was throwing the BS about winners sticking together, I'm not taking a bullet for her- and what else was I supposed to do? Tina railroaded me and John at final eight, I had to pretend to play ball! Besides I make final three with Alicia and John then -John will no way pass up taking me, and I can work on dummy Alicia if she wins it." I have no idea how this will go because we think differently, which I'm still shocked about. But Tina needs Gretchen to stay (yes, it might still work out for her); and Vee does not. John needs Gretchen to go, he's fine if Tina wins final four immunity (from his POV); and Alicia- who the fuck knows, she should keep Gretchen but can't, and even then can't trust her. Gretchen is most likely gone, unless the story angle goes Gretchen begs John and Alicia to cut out Tina, and John panics again- and uses Gretchen as the shield in final four -with Vee needing to rely on him, and Alicia also knowing they can't let Gretchen to final three. Tina or Gretchen is gone. Vee does not need Gretchen in the final four. God, I can't believe the Colleen/Tina arc was torpedoed; the John/Colleen boat ride talk jettisoned; the Vee/Colleen dance snuffed. Sensei, you had gold here!! The Ahi final four pressure cooker, a layered endgame- all for basic move Alicia again.
colleenlover		#1134	[-]
Posts: 8370 (08/20/08 8:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	PJMichaelangelo wrote: CL was dead on. Yeah, no kidding.
lalalakers		#1135	[-]
Posts: 348 (08/20/08 9:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Few comments... in the last scene in day 35, Tina's smile is supposed to confirm it for Gretchen? I dunno, seems like a bit of a stretch to me. The fact that Vee and Tina have been talking together this much and collaborating and discussing it is more of an indication than a smile from Tina, especially right after it says that Tina isn't stupid enough to give it away. Also, is it just me, or can Vee totally beat John right now? She's probably got Rob's vote, she's got a good chance to get Tina's (former winner odds), she'll get Alicia if John screws her over. No, she doesn't have Colleen or Kathy (though Kathy is a slight possibility), so she only has to win one of Frank (good chance) or Gretchen (even odds). Conversely, here's a good reason for John to ditch Vee and go with bigger goat Alicia now. Finally, it just occured how odd it is that a) Gretchen is so feared and b) Alicia is completely disregarded as an immunity threat, being a physical trainer and all. It may have seemed that she was disrespected in the real all-stars season, but I never got that opinion at all in Australia. She was so feared she was first out (after Kimmi gave away Varner, anyhow).
SenseiKreese		#1136	[-]
Posts: 2433 (08/20/08 9:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	God, I can't believe the Colleen/Tina arc was torpedoed; the John/Colleen boat ride talk jettisoned; the Vee/Colleen dance snuffed. Sensei, you had gold here!! The Ahi final four pressure cooker, a layered endgame- all for basic move Alicia again. Yes but those are just two examples of story arcs that I torpedoed. There have been lots of them I dumped along the way. You can go way back and look at the "Three Kekos women to the end" subplot, or the "Tina wants to hook back up with Colby at the merge" subplot. Not to mention the "Kathy wants revenge against Vee" subplot. Or, my favorite, the "Mike wants Survivor redemption" subplot. None of them worked out for the story either. That's just what happens. What looks to be a promising storyline one moment all of a sudden has no bearing on the rest of the story. It's one of the pitfalls of writing an open ended story like this. When I say I don't know how it is going to end, I mean it. The reason I come up with 100s of potential story arcs is to give myself options. The John/Colleen boat ride I included in the story for one specific reason. Not because I knew that Colleen would eventually vote out John, but because deep down I suspected that's what everybody would expect me to do. So I always had an idea that I would eventually reverse it, just to throw off expectations. In the original Hawaii, that would have been a cut and dry example of me setting up a "Colleen triumphs over John" storyline. In the rewrite, I decided to make the foreshadowing a little more unpredictable. I have tried to be a lot more sneaky the second time around with this story. The Vee/Colleen dance was awesome in the original, but once I realized that The Defiant One storyline wouldn't work in the rewrite (#&@!) I knew it had to die. It didn't have relevance to the storyline anymore. I totally was setting it up to mean something, that was totally obvious. But once The Defiant One didn't work out, I wanted to start with a fresh slate and go back to the drawing board. The Defiant One problems pretty much changed everything for me. I had to adapt as a writer just like the players do. And I fully believe the pressure cooker going into the finale will be as strong as it has ever been in any of my stories. The bootee's final words will pretty much ensure that. Day 36 has yet to be posted. You'll see :)
SenseiKreese		#1137	[-]
Posts: 2434 (08/20/08 9:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Few comments... in the last scene in day 35, Tina's smile is supposed to confirm it for Gretchen? I dunno, seems like a bit of a stretch to me. The fact that Vee and Tina have been talking together this much and collaborating and discussing it is more of an indication than a smile from Tina, especially right after it says that Tina isn't stupid enough to give it away. Yeah, see that "Tina smiles and gives it away" moment was a little dicey for me to write. I knew how I wanted it to sound in my head, but I couldn't quite get the details right when I put it on paper. It was one of the few parts of this episode that was a little bit rushed. That is part of the problem when I post things more quickly than I should. Some of the little nitpicky details don't come out like I expected them to. I might nitpick that scene a little more tonight. It was one of the scenes I was frantically editing and re-editing right before I posted last night. I'm not surprised that you noticed that. I knew I got lazy there. And yes, Vecepia could totally beat John now.
SenseiKreese		#1138	[-]
Posts: 2435 (08/20/08 9:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The basic message in that last scene is that Tina confirmed that she and Vee are going to be the final two, which is the first time anyone has ever flat out said that during a conversation. I was trying to get cute and say that without actually coming out and saying it. So anyway, if you're wondering what that smile meant, that was it. It was me trying to get too fancy with my writing. That tends to happen once in a while.
colleenlover		#1139	[-]
Posts: 8371 (08/20/08 10:07 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	yes, Sensei I know, I know. Believe me I've combed over every word of these stories both versions over the past six years- role playing every what if from every step of the way. It's practically been my Bible. (yes, it's sad on my part). So you can imagine this anticipation on my end. The characters I've loved, the dynamics they were in, and then have it go in this direction -I was disappointed. Really? Alicia's going to make that move last episode? I'm still going to try to get you to go back one of these days and rework this again. You're stubborn and I'm stubborn in being right. But in terms of tone in what you're doing with this episode, the tone is right and the tension is good. If this were the real show, I think the viewers would be frustrated- and only predominantly pulling for Gretchen. Rob, Kathy and now Colleen on the jury. Alicia would be the one lambasted by fans for ruining the game that they were hoping for for weeks, sadly losing Kathy- and then this idiot comes along and blows the whole comeback and even her own chances.
PJMichaelangelo		#1140	[-]
Posts: 121 (08/20/08 10:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	colleenlover wrote: If this were the real show, I think the viewers would be frustrated- and only predominantly pulling for Gretchen. Rob, Kathy and now Colleen on the jury. Alicia would be the one lambasted by fans for ruining the game that they were hoping for for weeks, sadly losing Kathy- and then this idiot comes along and blows the whole comeback and even her own chances. Of course they would. How many times have you been watching a season of Survivor and smacked yourself in the head that the players have done the least logical shit imaginable? Denise in China, anyone? That's one of the fascinating things about watching Survivor. That's why Ravu Rules gets raked over the coals by people any time he tries to compare an online game of Survivor to the real thing. Right now these people have been in the elements for over a month. They're exhausted and malnourished. Quite frankly I'm shocked at the people who can actually think strategically coherent in these situations. It's easy to sit at home, sipping a Coke and eating a Wendy's Baconator and saying, "I can't believe Erik would actually give up immunity," or "What a bunch of idiots those chicks were to try to dump Eliza before Chris." It's a grind.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

All-Star Survivor: Hawaii - final notes are up. I'm done!

Quick Reply