Winner Analysis

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RavuRules		#2841	[-]
Posts: 1631 (05/12/08 5:37 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	She's certainly earned a lot of respect from me Ravu, although I was never a hater/disapprover of Parvati in the first place. Yeah, I don't recall you hating Parvati really. I was referring more to people categorizing her as a slut, being a Amber-like follower, etc. and basically completely rewriting history for whatever reason. I am glad to see 7neves7 do a 180 on his ill-founded Parvati hate The fact that she was part of the moronic foursome that just had to vote for Yul, despite the simplest of logic being that he was the only one who had the HII certainly has deserved her a lot of criticism, but the simple fact of the matter is she won it all in an impressive manner. I've already explained how that wasn't necessarily moronic. Letting Yul slide by with the powerful idol wouldn't be a superior decision Quid. It would weaken the Aitu 4 as a whole, but would that increase her winning chances? That just makes Jonathan more powerful, which is why Yul was being targeted hardcore to begin with. If we get rid of Becky for instance, then the game plays out completely differently: Nate/Parvati - Adam/Candice/Jonathan - Yul/Sundra/Ozzy It wouldn't necessarily be Raro picking off Aitu 1 by 1, because they dynamics of that game weren't so simple (it only turned out that way, because Jonathan played Kingmaker to Yul). Nate was courting Ozzy, and had a prior tribe connection to Sundra. Aitu would still have their connections to one another. And Candice/Jonathan would still have pre-existing ties with Yul/Sundra/Ozzy should they feel compelled to use them. That would leave Parvati in a highly vulnerable spot to leave Yul in the game at F8 with the idol and a connection with Jonathan, and thus the propsect of him empowering the Adam/Candice/Jonathan faction even more, while still being unable to completely marginalize the Aitu connections. Parvati's biggest mistake was taking out allies like Jenny over Jonathan, but I thought that was somewhat reasonable She's proved that gameplay wise, she's as far from Amber as you can get. Thank god. Finally an assertive active puppet master female strategist winner. I can't believe we haven't had 1 after all these seasons
Quiddity		#2842	[-]
Posts: 2494 (05/12/08 6:12 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ravu, I think does a hell of a lot better than sixth if she and her Raro buddies vote out Becky instead of voting for Yul. I think you're downplaying Parvati's position by putting Jonathan ahead of her in the pecking order. The F3 with Raro in charge post merge is Candice-Adam-Parvati, not Candice-Adam-Jonathan. In any case, I'm sure we've discussed this scenario for 10+ pages before, so lets leave it alone. Rather than focus on her mistakes in Cook Islands, let's focus on what a great game she played in Micronesia. :P Thank god. Finally an assertive active puppet master female strategist winner. I can't believe we haven't had 1 after all these seasons Danni? Tina? Both controlled the end game like Parvati did. Their games aren't really comparable with Parvati's, but I would say both could be labeled puppetmasters. Last Edited By: Quiddity 05/12/08 6:14 PM. Edited 1 times.
RavuRules		#2843	[-]
Posts: 1632 (05/12/08 6:47 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ravu, I think does a hell of a lot better than sixth if she and her Raro buddies vote out Becky instead of voting for Yul. Maybe. We can't really predict it for sure. The main issue I had with your comment was calling her and Raro's decision "moronic" when we're completely speculating. The predicament she faced at F9 was more symptomatic of game moves and factors made much earlier--namely Candice and Jonathan's mutiny which really set into motion a series of events and controlled the flow of the game significantly I think you're downplaying Parvati's position by putting Jonathan ahead of her in the pecking order. The F3 with Raro in charge post merge is Candice-Adam-Parvati, not Candice-Adam-Jonathan. We don't know for sure. I'm aware of the Candice/Adam/Parvati alliance, but obviously, guess who's in the driver seat in both those scenarios? Candice/Adam--not Parvati. That was what I was referring to. And given that Jonathan is an additional factor with the potential of swinging Yul to his side, that gives Candice even more subtle power. Parvati would certainly do well had she taken out someone like Becky at F9, but she certainly isn't a "moron" for not realizing Jonathan was going to jump ship like he did at that time. She just underestimated Yul's social and strategic game, but it certainly wasn't common sense to think Jonathan would go back to those he had betrayed at the mutiny In any case, I'm sure we've discussed this scenario for 10+ pages before, so lets leave it alone. Rather than focus on her mistakes in Cook Islands, let's focus on what a great game she played in Micronesia. :P I wasn't focusing on her mistakes. You're the 1 who called her and Raro morons, which I've never done Danni? Tina? Both controlled the end game like Parvati did. Their games aren't really comparable with Parvati's, but I would say both could be labeled puppetmasters. I said "assertive". Danni and Tina were subtle game controlling puppet masters using pawns behind the scenes to do their dirty work (Keith, Colby, Ethan (ASS Tina), Rafe). No female has been as aggressive and overt with her control and won the game like Parvati. The closest female would be Sandra, but there were times that Sandra played follower and also had innate UTR status as well
Katy Carney		#2844	[-]
Posts: 1144 (05/12/08 7:02 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RavuRules wrote: She's proved that gameplay wise, she's as far from Amber as you can get. Thank god. Finally an assertive active puppet master female strategist winner. I can't believe we haven't had 1 after all these seasons Yes! I totally agree. I'm also glad she managed to have a personality while doing it (even if it is one that some find irritating) and wasn't a generic robot like Earl and Yul.
Quiddity		#2845	[-]
Posts: 2497 (05/12/08 7:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RavuRules wrote: Danni? Tina? Both controlled the end game like Parvati did. Their games aren't really comparable with Parvati's, but I would say both could be labeled puppetmasters. I said "assertive". Danni and Tina were subtle game controlling puppet masters using pawns behind the scenes to do their dirty work (Keith, Colby, Ethan (ASS Tina), Rafe). No female has been as aggressive and overt with her control and won the game like Parvati. The closest female would be Sandra, but there were times that Sandra played follower and also had innate UTR status as well Well yes, you are right on that one. She has played as aggressive and outward a game as any female winner we've ever had. As for everything else... I'm not getting in a 10 page long debate with you about Cook Islands again. :P
unduli clone		#2846	[-]
Posts: 2782 (05/12/08 7:32 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Parvati is definitely the most forthright player out of the female winner group, which I have to give major props to. Like she said at the FTC, the UTR strategy is a good one, but I respect that she played outside of the box designated for female winners. That being said, I think both Tina and Danni started playing a bit later than Parvati, who was in the game from the first TC and playing long-term and playing for power. In my opinion, Tina and Danni let the first few TC's flow as they needed and only stepped in to take control when they felt that it wasn't going how they wanted. Parvati intentionally made a grab for control from the beginning instead of letting others dictate the earlier boots, and I respect that.
Kitty Pryde1		#2847	[-]
Posts: 4090 (05/12/08 8:18 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Except Cirie did that, not Parvati.
Katy Carney		#2848	[-]
Posts: 1146 (05/12/08 8:40 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Except Cirie did that, not Parvati. Nope. Cirie used the power that Parvati gained, but Cirie herself was another UTR manipulator, much more like Sandra or Tina.
Kitty Pryde1		#2849	[-]
Posts: 4092 (05/12/08 9:03 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	No, Cirie was dominant in taking out Yau-Man, Ozzy, and Erik. She was as in control, if not moreso than Parvati.
SurvivorSurvivorSurvivor		#2850	[-]
Posts: 5551 (05/12/08 9:09 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Why is Danni even in the discussion for some of you? Rafe was a moron and let her go to the F3 because "she deserved it". She won the final immunity challenge and took the goat to the end. If Darrah had been given a free pass to the F3, she'd have taken Lil and won the game in the same manner. The fuck-ups of others, nothing more. Danni even voted out strong fuckin' Blake and then watched her tribe cut loose two more members. Like Chris, she put herself into a weakened position going into the merge. The only sound-plus you can give her is spending food money on the immunity clue (then again, Rafe/Stephenie didn't need and the others were strategic dipshits). Some will point out that she's a social chameleon, but I don't buy it. If Cindy hadn't goofed the car reward, Danni goes home in 5th. So, in truth: 1) Danni ends up on a season where all the strategic weaklings are too dumb to spend money on something other than food that could lead to $1 Million. Judd goes home. 2) Cindy wins a car reward and fucks it up. This makes whiny Rafe irate and allows him to play it stupid. Cindy goes home. 3) Once again, Rafe can't fathom the off-chance that Stephenie takes Lydia to the end and he loses to the midget, so he votes her out instead of doing the strategically obvious. Rafe lexed himself, that's all there is to it. To top it off, Danni would later give God credit for her win. :/
Katy Carney		#2851	[-]
Posts: 1147 (05/12/08 9:34 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: No, Cirie was dominant in taking out Yau-Man, Ozzy, and Erik. She was as in control, if not moreso than Parvati. She was piggy backing on Parvati's power, just like Sandra, Tina and Danni. Parvati had the complete and total loyalty of the couples, and then later Natalie, Alexis and Amanda. She was Tom, Yul, Earl, everyone who has lead an alliance, except that she had different alliances that served only her interests and merged them. Final five women was not for Cirie...Cirie had no power in that situation and was always at the bottom. She even admitted that.
ShanesThinkingSeat		#2852	[-]
Posts: 307 (05/13/08 7:10 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Parvati may have had a little luck go her way, but I can't see how any of the rest of them didn't: Tina...let's be honest, no Skupin incident, and the winner comes out of Kucha. V...if I recall, she's lucky to have won F4 immunity, and that it suited her better than the rest. Jenna...relied on immunity to get to F2 AND wanted to quit AND would've been toast with Heidi if Christy made up her mind Sandra...would've been 1st out if Drake lost the first immunity challenge (and they were pretty close) Amber......... Danni...only survived F6 b/c of an IC win. Parvati...didn't let herself slide to the end, she made it happen. 3rd greatest winner, behind only our Lord and Master and the Tominator.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#2853	[-]
Posts: 1226 (05/13/08 7:30 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Vee's winning F4 immunity was hardly luck - she had been counting on it being Fallen Comrades since the beginning of the game and had used her luxury item (a journal) to take notes. That's called preparation. The producers responded by mothballing Fallen Comrades (which was already being considered due to the S3 screw up) and a move away from luxury items.
Robert Qld		#2854	[-]
Posts: 1058 (05/13/08 7:46 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ShanesThinkingSeat wrote: Parvati may have had a little luck go her way, but I can't see how any of the rest of them didn't: 3rd greatest winner, behind only our Lord and Master and the Tominator. To be fair Tom had a huge amount of luck as well, more so then some of the other winners you mentioned, and he has even admited (Survivor Live) that he wasn't really the brains when it came to strategy - that was Katie & Ian. Not to say he didn't play a few good moves (he did), but it really helped Ulong & Caryn both sucked. Still, I admit, Parv is definately up the top (but our Lord and Master will never be moved from the #1 position)
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#2855	[-]
Posts: 3543 (05/13/08 7:50 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	All the winners had luck go their way, otherwise they wouldn't have won. What I want to know is, should Jonathans and James injuries be taken into account or not? And should the use or unuse of the HII be counted as a lucky break?
Robert Qld		#2856	[-]
Posts: 1061 (05/13/08 8:30 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think the HII should be taken in at all. They where a part of the gameplay and used or unused as a part of game strategy. James shouldn't also count, because his days where numbered on the tribe anyway. At best he would've outlasted another tribal council and that is it. Jonathon... maybe... it would've been interesting to see how a double tribal council would've gone down. I figure Kathy would've been kicked off the first scheduled double as a mercy killing, but the second would've been really interesting...
ShanesThinkingSeat		#2857	[-]
Posts: 308 (05/13/08 8:30 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Injuries were not under Parvati's control, so yes, Jonathan (who was after Parvati) was gunning for her, so that is a minor lucky break, I'd say. Lack of HII use, I don't think so. And I haven't rewatched S4 in a long time, so I didn't take V's note-taking into account. I still consider it luck, though. Maybe the producers would change it immediately after S3 due to the screwup, she had no way of knowing for sure. I agree Tom had a great deal of luck, but I still consider him #2. Decent strategist, great competitor, but he shouldn't have let the women take the numbers lead when it got down to F7. Big mistake. Brian will probably never move from my #1 slot. Ultimate player of the game.
kishuu		#2858	[-]
Posts: 22 (05/13/08 8:55 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Parvati had loads of lucky breaks tbh. She was obviously the one targetted fast by Eliza & Jonathan for knowing to be a potential social game player (which showed). And she blatantly admitted during the reunion show she didn't wanted to play the game in day 1, she was forced to when Jonathan targeted her. Oh, and she was lucky that Fairplay practically gave up and dug his own grave allowing Parvati to slide past a potential ground-breaking tc where she could've been voted out. Had Ami not been voted out, Eliza probably would have a chance to worm in. And hell, in a F3 situation, Parvati would have lost to both Amanda and Cirie, ending up in third (in terms of things. Cirie would've gotten votes of playing the game more strategically (Eliza + Jason) while Parv would've lost the majority of the votes she had in the F2). She just had loads of luck in terms of the way Micronesia turned out, as what Kitty Pryde1 says in her ranking list. so essentially, Parvati was screwed had her tribe after the swap (can't remember cause that was the most boring part of Micronesia tbh) lost immunity when Jonathan was still in the game (Jonathan had Nat + Alexis on his side at that point). So yeah, she had loads of lucky breaks in my opinion had the game gone normally.
unduli clone		#2859	[-]
Posts: 2786 (05/13/08 9:04 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Lucky? Seriously? Every single winner has had lucky breaks, but in most all cases it's been tempered with hard work to get that win. And Parvati worked hard and held control to get her win.
ShanesThinkingSeat		#2860	[-]
Posts: 311 (05/13/08 10:20 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Agreed. The only thing that is keeping me from putting Parvati in the top 2 winners ever is the fact that she was probably toast if JFP didn't bail out. Because of that, she's not as good as Brian or Tom.

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