obama. What's up with that? in Off Topic Forum

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obama. What's up with that?

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Beefcake		#3301	[-]
Posts: 21433 03/19/12 04:14 PM Thinks astrology is real More Recent Posts	Archimedes wrote: Churches are good because they provide food for the needy, shelter and medicine, etc. But government can't be good even if it does the same. It's not the federal governments job to do those things. Show me where in the US Constitution the federal government is given that responsibility. Even more importantly to me, the Church does it with money that people voluntarily give to the Church; the government does it with money they take from us at threat of imprisonment. If the Church doesn't do a good job, we can take our money elsewhere; if the government doesn't do a good job, it just takes even more money away from us (and if they're Democrats, tell us we're selfish because we don't want them to keep wasting our money).
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Trainwreck		#3302	[-]
Posts: 9261 03/19/12 04:15 PM Registered user More Recent Posts	UrbanSprawl wrote: That's a lot of cognitive dissonance is one post, trainwreck. I'm starting to see where you got your name. Churches are good because they provide food for the needy, shelter and medicine, etc. But government can't be good even if it does the same. And the 1 percent mis-use money, so let's elect more government officials which spend more money on the 1 percent. Um the current system is set up for those who have needs get those needs taken care of and he church offers many alternative plans to the needy The appalling notion that you honestly believe I'm for cutting the government benefits for those needing them is asinine but then again I read your many threads. Are you in favor of our rich senators and congressmen to parade around like royalty while royally screwing your wallet? Why don't you address those issues rather than cry about money and raising taxes.We know the government is inefficient and needs to learn how to manage a simple budget. Once they prove they can save and balance the checkbook then we can decide to give them more of OUR money. But not until then, sorry. You never answered me in the Global Warming Thread of what you propose to do on a personal level to save our planet. I was sort of hoping you would outline the changes you made rather than passing the buck, to the rich corporations. Like everything in this world, it's useless to point at the other guy when you know deep down inside you're not doing a damn thing about it yourself.
UrbanSprawl		#3303	[-]
Posts: 8765 03/19/12 04:17 PM Just ignore me More Recent Posts	So beefcake wants zero taxes and to either pay private companies for utilities and services (which would be enormous) or live in a third world wasteland. You should explore your ideas more, beefcake. Think things out.
merkyl		#3304	[-]
Posts: 79783 03/19/12 04:19 PM Registered loser More Recent Posts	Like you explore young children?
Archimedes		#3305	[-]
Posts: 8877 03/19/12 04:21 PM Divides by zero More Recent Posts	nomii wrote: Archimedes wrote: Churches are good because they provide food for the needy, shelter and medicine, etc. But government can't be good even if it does the same. It's not the federal governments job to do those things. Show me where in the US Constitution the federal government is given that responsibility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Welfare_clause#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause The General Welfare Clause occurs in the preamble to the Constitution and is not a power given to the federal government. From your wikipedia link: The United States Constitution contains two references to "the General Welfare", one occurring in the Preamble and the other in the Taxing and Spending Clause. It is only the latter that is referred to as the "General Welfare Clause" of this document. These clauses in the U.S. Constitution are exceptions to the typical use of a general welfare clause, and are not considered grants of a general legislative power to the federal government^[2] as the U.S. Supreme Court has held: the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution "has never been regarded as the source of any substantive power conferred on the Government of the United States or on any of its Departments";^[3]^[4] and, that Associate Justice Joseph Story's construction of the Article I, Section 8 General Welfare Clause—as elaborated in Story's 1833 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States—is the correct interpretation.^[5]^[6] Justice Story concluded that the General Welfare Clause is not an independent grant of power, but a qualification on the taxing power which included within it a power to spend tax revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government. Thomas Jefferson explained the latter general welfare clause for the United States: “[T]he laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They [Congress] are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose.”^[7] In 1824 Chief Justice John Marshall described in obiter dictum a further limit on the General Welfare Clause in Gibbons v. Ogden: "Congress is authorized to lay and collect taxes, &c. to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States. ... Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States."^[8] I can't count the number of liberal idiots I've had to educate on this. The Jefferson quote is one of my favorites.
Beefcake		#3306	[-]
Posts: 21433 03/19/12 04:22 PM Thinks astrology is real More Recent Posts	Where did I say that?
UrbanSprawl		#3307	[-]
Posts: 8765 03/19/12 04:26 PM Just ignore me More Recent Posts	If you're asking me what I want out of our current government. I want them to protect the environment, modernize energy infrastructure, represent the middle class, increase jobs and services to the middle class rather than watch itself be destroyed, increase taxes on the richest, end the wars of empire (spend that money in more stimulative and productive ways), and protect our civil liberties. If any elected politicians do the above, then they're doing their country an amazing service. If you're talking about a 'rich senator parading around like royalty,' well, if he or she did the above, then he or she is pulling their weight while saving the middle class. So I couldn't have much antipathy toward them. As for climate change, there are many things I do large and small to help. I only buy used cars (and cars that aren't gas guzzlers). I won't have children. I don't buy a lot of garbage. And I support the green party and greener candidates.
nomii		#3308	[-]
Posts: 13673 03/19/12 04:27 PM Registered user More Recent Posts	Hi Archimedes, did you bother reading the entire thing, where the broad interpretation is the widely accepted one among judges and constitutional scholars?
UrbanSprawl		#3309	[-]
Posts: 8765 03/19/12 04:29 PM Just ignore me More Recent Posts	The general welfare clause is in the US Constitution. Although cut-and-pasting segments of a text you don't understand while claiming you "can't count the number of liberal idiots I've had to educate on this" is entertaining in its own right.
Trainwreck		#3310	[-]
Posts: 9261 03/19/12 04:33 PM Registered user More Recent Posts	To be fair, nomii was educated about how and what Churches do with your money.
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merkyl		#3311	[-]
Posts: 79783 03/19/12 04:33 PM Registered loser More Recent Posts	Preschools shudder when numbi and UC post together.
nomii		#3312	[-]
Posts: 13673 03/19/12 05:07 PM Registered user More Recent Posts	Looks like its been obamacare reports week recently. Besides CBO telling us about it being $50 billion below cost, we now have this: Almost 4 million seniors saved about $2.16 billion through discounts for their prescription medications in 2011, http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/healthcare/story/2012-03-19/Seniors-see-savings-on-Rx-drugs-under-2010-health-care-law/53621502/1
Licorice		#3313	[-]
Posts: 15857 03/19/12 05:10 PM More Recent Posts	Republicans do seem to go ballistic whenever the "general welfare" clause is brought up. Maybe because it's proof positive that one of the primary purposes of the government is to enact policies that are best for everyone - and if that means "spreading the wealth around" a little bit, so be it...
Beefcake		#3314	[-]
Posts: 21433 03/19/12 05:16 PM Thinks astrology is real More Recent Posts	No, the problem with the Lefty interpretation of "general welfare" is that it means that there is absolutely no limit on government authority. If the government decrees that it's for our own good, it can do whatever it wants. It makes a joke of the whole idea of limited government.
DelosWorld		#3315	[-]
Posts: 6356 03/19/12 05:21 PM More Recent Posts	nomii wrote: Looks like its been obamacare reports week recently. Besides CBO telling us about it being $50 billion below cost, we now have this: Almost 4 million seniors saved about $2.16 billion through discounts for their prescription medications in 2011, http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/healthcare/story/2012-03-19/Seniors-see-savings-on-Rx-drugs-under-2010-health-care-law/53621502/1 And consider the additional tens of billions of interest money seniors did not earn because of the loose monetary policy of the Fed that has devalued the dollar. There's a net loss to seniors if you count the loss of tax earnings, increased inflation costs, and devaluation of their homes. If they're lucky they'll be able to convert their gold weddings into cash when they need to buy cat food to survive.
DelosWorld		#3316	[-]
Posts: 6356 03/19/12 05:25 PM More Recent Posts	Beefcake wrote: No, the problem with the Lefty interpretation of "general welfare" is that it means that there is absolutely no limit on government authority. If the government decrees that it's for our own good, it can do whatever it wants. It makes a joke of the whole idea of limited government. No silly, the general welfare clause was all they needed to complete the Constitution. The rest of it was written for fun during a multi-day splurge of smoking Benjamin Franklin grown weed.
nomii		#3317	[-]
Posts: 13673 03/19/12 05:39 PM Registered user More Recent Posts	consider the additional tens of billions of interest money seniors did not earn because of the loose monetary policy of the Fed that has devalued the dollar. First, in 2009 & 2010 the inflation rate was low to negative. In 2011 stock markets have soared so investments should be returning more returns. Furthermore, Fed policy is entirely different from Federal Govt healthcare policy. So, what was your point again?
TheWhiteRabbit		#3318	[-]
Posts: 6125 03/19/12 05:44 PM More Recent Posts	Why do Republicans hate recreational sex and any trace of it in our culture? Is there any doubt Rick Santorum would force women to wear hijabs if he was elected President? Here's where the GOP is at in the year 2012
TheWhiteRabbit		#3319	[-]
Posts: 6125 03/19/12 05:46 PM More Recent Posts
Licorice		#3320	[-]
Posts: 15857 03/19/12 06:09 PM More Recent Posts	This post is intended to be blank.
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obama. What's up with that?